Philander

Red wrote:I'm interested in people's opinions on him. As mentioned previously I heard some luminaries say that he is one of the best bowlers they've seen in a long, long time. One thought that Steyn and one or two others were overrated but he was a gun.

Now that the experts here have seen him bowl in a number of countries how do they think his career might go and how do they rate him?

IIRC it was you who said Steyn was overrated

taipan wrote:

Red wrote:I'm interested in people's opinions on him. As mentioned previously I heard some luminaries say that he is one of the best bowlers they've seen in a long, long time. One thought that Steyn and one or two others were overrated but he was a gun.

Now that the experts here have seen him bowl in a number of countries how do they think his career might go and how do they rate him?

IIRC it was you who said Steyn was overrated

On that thread you dragged up the other day yes (I was proven to be wrong later in that tour of oz) but Stacky et al also suggested this earlier this year.

I also did note the other day that twice within a year during the last innings of a pivotal test match that it has been Philander, not Steyn who has stood up.

Firstly I might point out that it was not me who dragged that tread up.

Secondly, for all your supposed watching of test cricket, you still do not understand how test bowling combinations work.

Thirdly is would suggest you check who the leading wicket taker in the series was.

And finally, WGAF what Stacky thinks.

Steyn has nearly 300 Test wickets @ 23, don't think there's much argument there compared to anyone else of his era.

Philander certainly has one of the most remarkable starts to a Test career to his name, but there's no more chance of him ending his career averaging 15 than there is of Chris Martin making a Test century. Things will even out in time and show his true quality. He's clearly a very good bowler and he, Steyn and Morkel all have very different qualities which makes for a strong attack, not too many bowlers of his sort of pace have been true greats but we'll wait and see.

I thought VernPhil was well below par until the last innings he bowled in and could be backed up statistically by it. He's a decent enough bowler and compliments the other two quicks well, but as said it's doubtful he's a bowler that'll end up averaging under 20.

When does he tour the subcontinent?

lanka middle of the next year, pakistan at the end

seems the saffies dont tour india till october 2015

In method and "more dangerous than he might look", he reminds me a lot of Terry Alderman of yore.

No great pace, but with a thinking game of moving, wobbling or jagging the ball within Boycott's "corridor of uncertainty" (away movement to the slips or for a leading edge, in movement for LBW or clean bowled) nags away at the batsmen, keeping them guessing - and rarely gives a loose delivery to relieve the pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBG1pSMgTnw

With similar results, it seems! :-O

(Except TA couldn't bat much.)

He really doesn't look anything special but clearly his stats say otherwise. Obviously has the knack of darting it around in the air and off the seam.

If you were picking a World XI now it would be hard to look past an all-SA seam attack, been a while since you could say that about any country. WI late 80s/early 90s perhaps, but there was plenty of competition in terms of global fast bowling then.

It is the balance and variety of that attack that makes it stand out, there's pace, bounce, swing and seam. England by comparison have the problem of a lot of similar bowlers and if nothing happens for one of them it's likely nothing will happen for the others either.

Agree with beamer re: the 3 Saffie pacemen.

None of the other countries really have a bowler that is a really strong contender for a World XI position. Swann, Ashwin, or Herath for the spinner's spot, maybe.

Red wrote:... people's opinions on him

I think Ned's doing pretty well ... he's a very old-fashioned bowler ... bowls straight and at a lively if not fast pace, and does a lot with the ball both in the air and off the deck. In that respect he reminds me of Damien Fleming, Terry Alderman, Mike Hendrick, Geoff Arnold, Adam Dale, Max Walker, Paul Reiffel, and a host of other bustling seamers and cutters from another age altogether. It's interesting that these old techniques still work so well.

lardbucket wrote:Agree with beamer re: the 3 Saffie pacemen.

None of the other countries really have a bowler that is a really strong contender for a World XI position. Swann, Ashwin, or Herath for the spinner's spot, maybe.

Yeah, you'd have to pick a spinner and I guess Chuck 2 is in pole position right now. I guess if you were expecting it to swing a lot you might consider Anderson over Morkel but otherwise I think worldwide quick bowling is still pretty ordinary on the whole.

On the point of a varied attack, that is precisely what was said of England's seamers in 2005. Harmison's bounce (from a high arm), Flintoff's nipping around at speed off the pitch, Jonah's fast skiddy delivery and Hoggy's less pacy swing.

It was all falling apart by late 2006 - Jones's physiological breakdown, Harmison far from home and famously erratic, Hoggard starting to lose something in penetration, and Flintoff also injury-prone and worse, carrying far too much of the attack on his own (and captaincy too).

And Young Jimmy Anderson, rigorously coached to bowl "properly", getting walloped all over the park. After about 60 overs, 2-300 (rough calculation), replaced by Saj ...

But then, I suppose we did have Gilo to make up for it ......

And Kallis is hardly the worst 4th seamer in the world.

He'll do well where ever he plays, although I would expect him to end up in the mid 25's with an average once he has played the subcontinent.

He does what any bowler should do. stand the seam up and a decent pace and allow it to what the seams does. He also doesn;t bowl much carp either.

He also seems to have a 'nip' off the pitch which is not shown by the speed gun.

A very good bowler indeed IMO.

holcs wrote:He does what any bowler should do. stand the seam up and a decent pace and allow it to what the seams does. He also doesn;t bowl much carp either.

If you bowl carp, will batsmen go fishing outside the off stump?

beamer wrote:

holcs wrote:He does what any bowler should do. stand the seam up and a decent pace and allow it to what the seams does. He also doesn;t bowl much carp either.

If you bowl carp, will batsmen go fishing outside the off stump?

Only if it's a red herring.

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:

holcs wrote:He does what any bowler should do. stand the seam up and a decent pace and allow it to what the seams does. He also doesn;t bowl much carp either.

If you bowl carp, will batsmen go fishing outside the off stump?

Only if it's a red herring.

waiting for a hook

He would still have to get it in the right channel.


If so, Zander de Bruyn might be like a fish out of water.

Red wrote:He generally bowls low to mid 130s but significantly he puts it in the right areas and has enough late seam movement to cause concern.

HERE IT IS!!!

MrPrez wrote:Yes he did...

Come back Mr President.

And bring your game of XIs.

remains a very good bowler indeed

Red wrote:He generally bowls low to mid 130s but significantly he puts it in the right areas and has enough late seam movement to cause concern.

the original gold seam?