Brett Lee

There's some fairly vitriolic stuff on here about Lee almost exclusively from Aussie posters. What's the matter - 310 test wickets not good enough for you?

Lillee has 355. I don't think they should pick him either

You miss my point, for as long as I've been posting on here, there has been an under current of criticism of Lee. In his early days - fair enough, he had a dodgy action (witness the ball that sconned Alex Tudor). But he delivered 300+ wickets at test level. What is there to criticise?

Average of 30 plus.

30+ average

Granted it is unfair to compare him to tgm and even the gypsie but he came in to replace Pistol and Fleming and their figures looked much better.

The hype he came with and didn't live up to didn't help him either.

There is also the very real phenomenon that non-NSW people hate everything to do with NSW because they are dripping with jealousy

Basil wrote:There's some fairly vitriolic stuff on here about Lee almost exclusively from Aussie posters. What's the matter - 310 test wickets not good enough for you?

That's the crime Bas, the fact that he was picked for enough matches to take those wickets. There were always better bowlers not selected.

Steve Waugh misused him as well. He was seen as the 'enforcer 'who's job it would be to bowl bumper-yorker all day long. He started to believe his own hype a bit as well, indulging in stupid wicket taking celebrations at inopportune times, like when India was 700-5 at Sydney in 2004, or getting Flintoff out with England 5 down needing 10 to win in the Champions Trophy. He was an overrated c*nt for a while.

He was excellent in his first 10 or so games, brainless from 2001 until 2004, then pretty good from 2005 until 2007. He was one of the bright spots for Aus in the 2005 Ashes because of the character he showed.

Henry wrote:
He was one of the bright spots for Aus in the 2005 Ashes because of the character he showed.

He did show resolve with the bat. Had he bowled with with any effectiveness we need not have to have known about the other.

I thought he was one of the better bowlers as well. Certainly better than Gillespie, who was clearly shot as early as the first test, and should (probably would have been if Mcgrath hadn't got injured) have been replaced at Edgbaston.

We faced both of Lee, the good one in 99/00 and then the brilliant gash that he offered us four years later. We could rely on him to help us out of any sticky situations in that series.

Henry wrote:I thought he was one of the better bowlers as well. .

Didn't he average over 40? Atlough if you take Warne out that probably did make him one of the better bowlers

Well, at least he's always given 100%. There were times in the early 2000s where he became a bit of a marketing driven, gash bowling, chainsaw celebrating c*nt, but by and large he has been one of the more likeable and hard-working Aus cricketers over the last 12 years.

The main frustration was that he wasn't better than he was. With his raw tools, esp his pace, he should have been a 400 wickets at 25 bowler. But he NEVER seemed to learn the art of bowling and instead only had plan A.

In this, he was directly compared to his team mates in McGrath and Warne who were masters at how to get batsmen out. Hence the massive frustration that Australian fans had with him.

In isolation his career is very good. Probably on a par with Thommo, Hughes and McDermott as far as all-time Australian bowlers are concerned.

I did an analysis of Bung's career 3 years ago, and it clearly showed he had 4 distinct periods in his career. Remarkably, the search function actually helped me find it:

Bung 1.0 (Dec 1999 to Dec 2000) - 7 Tests 42 wickets @ 16.07 SR=32.60
Bung 2.0 (July 2001 to Oct 2005) - 36 Tests, 119 wickets @ 39.03 SR=61.00
Bung 3.0 (Nov 2005 to June 2008) - 25 Tests 128 wickets @ 25.23 SR=47.80
Bung 4.0 (Oct 2008 to Dec 2008) - 8 Tests 21 wickets @ 47.80 SR=84.10

So Bung 1.0 was his first 7 Tests leading up to him throwing his elbow out in Perth v Windies, and Bung 3.0 was an admirable step up post Ashes 05 and then taking over as pace spearhead after Pidg's retirement. In the odd numbered versions, his average and SR was world class. The even numbered versions - gash.

Henry wrote:In isolation his career is very good. Probably on a par with Thommo, Hughes and McDermott as far as all-time Australian bowlers are concerned.

Thommo's ahead despite taking fewer wickets because at his peak he was a series winning bowler who scared the life out of his opponents but he was never the same after the Turner incident.

Thommo, Merv and McSofty were considerably better bowlers than Bung. But Bung is far from the worst bowler to have ever pulled on the boots for Aus.

He's better than the current crop of Aussie quickies.

in essence I think JGK and Skully got it right...bung had lots of talent but had no interest in harvesting it...his test record includes many dire performances with the ball which is why I expect he is the most lowly rated of quicks to have over 300 test wickets...on the rare occasion he was out of the team both he and his management campaigned ruthlessly through the spiv media for his recall

tricycle wrote:We faced both of Lee, the good one in 99/00 and then the brilliant gash that he offered us four years later. We could rely on him to help us out of any sticky situations in that series.

and the good version again in 2007/08, where he was easily the bowler of the series

True

Bung was a decent bowler. Ironically he was probably a better bowler without the greats in the team, but if they were in the team he was always the pressure release - someone to attack. Seemed to have periods of speed-gun-watching as well.

Brass Monkey wrote:Bung was a decent bowler. Ironically he was probably a better bowler without the greats in the team, but if they were in the team he was always the pressure release - someone to attack. Seemed to have periods of speed-gun-watching as well.

It's why I rate Bung 3.0 highly. From 3 years after Ashes 05 he performed very well, particularly after Pidg and Warnie retired. It all went haywire when the Yarps toured in 2008-09 (1 wicket at a million) then he got injured and was out for a while, and never did anything of note again.

Aye, he managed to get his average v England under 40 because of the 06/07 series. Proud times for him, it was.

He's got to give it up now though, hasn't he? He's taken something like 1-120 in this ODI series and Australia are losing. He wont make the next world cup. Time to move on, surely....