Was Hayden right?

is this mcg pitch really quite difficult to bat on? after india bowled poorly in the first session all the aussie bats except hayden struggled. and now besides tendulkar india looks like they are playing on a minefield. pitch seems slow and the bounce loopy, i think australia's score is actually above par. india is not going to chase anything above 200-225 on this pitch

Either Hayden was right or two very good batting teams had very bad days.

More than likely that was one of hayden's better knocks and another rebuke for this that call him a ftb.

Anybody who watched him bat on the greentops in south africa in 2006 would know he can bat in bowler friendly conditions.

Hayden has a fine record of performing in tough conditions.

Besides the dreaded LLL and even dreadeder VoR, is there anyone else left who actually subscribes to the 'Hayden is a FTB' whine?

Well, he averages over 60 in Australia and 43 overseas. If he was from India what would you all be saying?

Still don't think the pitch is that hard to bat on. Bar Tendulkar and to an extent Ganguly, it was disgraceful batting from the Indian line-up.

while his record is better here he has scored well in most other countries...btw how many recent english openers have an average of 43 or better counting home and away?

Me myself personally, nothing. Many times I have expressed the view that this selective use of stats is bollocks. And Australia is not the only place that has flat tracks so I think the odd orange has crept into your comparison of apples.

But it's not that long ago that the big bitch with Hayden was that he was lazy and arrogant and got out to crap bowlers too often because he didn't have enough respect. And that he swore at too many imaginary kids.

Fred Nerk wrote:Me myself personally, nothing. Many times I have expressed the view that this selective use of stats is bollocks. And Australia is not the only place that has flat tracks so I think the odd orange has crept into your comparison of apples.

But it's not that long ago that the big bitch with Hayden was that he was lazy and arrogant and got out to crap bowlers too often because he didn't have enough respect. And that he swore at too many imaginary kids.

underachieving to some very ordinairy trundlers during the 05 ashes series provided him with a sharp wake up call

horace wrote:while his record is better here he has scored well in most other countries...btw how many recent english openers have an average of 43 or better counting home and away?

Trescothick, Vaughan, Cook, Strauss......

Hayden is a good player, but apart from that 2001 series against India, he hasn't really had a fantastic away series in his career.

They were even more ordinary in 01.

horace wrote:

Fred Nerk wrote:Me myself personally, nothing. Many times I have expressed the view that this selective use of stats is bollocks. And Australia is not the only place that has flat tracks so I think the odd orange has crept into your comparison of apples.

But it's not that long ago that the big bitch with Hayden was that he was lazy and arrogant and got out to crap bowlers too often because he didn't have enough respect. And that he swore at too many imaginary kids.

underachieving to some very ordinairy trundlers during the 05 ashes series provided him with a sharp wake up call

LOL. Get ****** Horrie.

No Trev, I'm not playing. I'm not getting bogged down in this rubbish. What happens now is that I nominate a series and you tell me why that shouldn't count. Find another mug.

Tresco?

wtf he's like a poor mans hayden.

How could anybody seriously say hayden is a flat track bully but tresco isn't?

he averages 36 away from home and struggles even more than hayden vs high quality pace.

like most of the Oz team i think the Unit felt some responsibility for 05 loss...too many times it seemed that hubris was his downfall in that series...even one of the more ordinairy of attacks (which Engand had at that time) is capable of getting a champ out

Henry wrote:

horace wrote:while his record is better here he has scored well in most other countries...btw how many recent english openers have an average of 43 or better counting home and away?

Trescothick, Vaughan, Cook, Strauss......

Hayden is a good player, but apart from that 2001 series against India, he hasn't really had a fantastic away series in his career.

He averaged over 60 in 3 consecutive away series in 02-3.

It was a load of BS in a ploy to cover up his FTB tag and to make the Indians play apprehensively. I guess it worked.

Fred Nerk wrote:Besides the dreaded LLL and even dreadeder VoR, is there anyone else left who actually subscribes to the 'Hayden is a FTB' whine?

I used to subscribe to it, but no longer. A debate with Leo and having seen him produce the goods after his poor '05 Ashes I do rate him highly now.

However he isn't Australia's greatest ever opener. Nor can he do anything about his abominable start to test cricket, and good on him for proving the doubters (me in particular ) wrong after the likes of Ambrose embarrassed him.

Everybody remembers the Ambrose ball. It wasn't his finest moment but he's by no means the only batsman ever to do that. We saw a ripper just a month ago in the SL-Oz series, from one of the world's most in-form batsmen. And everybody also remembers that classically awful century he made in the next match, where he at least showed application, tenacity and character (even if precious little skill, timing, technique, shot selection or pro-activity). But hardly anybody remembers the 47 he made in Perth in the second innings against Ambrose and co on a sub-standard pitch.

He was also the Charley Muggins who made way for Elliott after he came back from the knee injury, despite the fact that he had performed better than his opening partner who, unfortunately for him, was also the team captain. I agreed at the time with the decision to retain Taylor through The Slump but I still acknowledge that Hayden really copped the rough end of the pineapple as a result.

he only played what 5 innings vs ambrose?

he made a ton in those 5 and two of those innings were on an almost unplayable waca wicket one of which he scored 47 out of Australia's 190 runs.

No. he never made a ton against Ambrose.

And it wasn't just Ambrose. On his tour to South Africa, Pollock and Donald (plus the umpire in the Schultz LBW) took care of him with the utmost ease.

I don't think Ambrose played in Adelaide.

Still that Adealide innings has an important moral: you can still possibly make valuable runs no matter how badly you're batting, if you value your wicket enough. As Rahul Dravid, for instance, needs to realise.

So as a newby to test cricket he failed against Donald and Ambrose . . . farq he should give back his baggy green and top himself!

So how many innings did he actually play vs ambrose?

3 or 4? two of them on that WACA pitch that was cracked apart on day 1?