The Final Test

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

I can remember Hayden getting destroyed by pace in SA.

JGK wrote:CLarke hasn't lost 6 in a row.

 Neither did Hughes - he lost 5 (last 3 in the Windies, Perth, Brisbane), then AB took over for Adelaide where loss no 6 happened.

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

She probably got jimmy mixed up with saj

embee wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

She probably got jimmy mixed up with saj

Actually remember that pie chucker well.

But Anderson's figures for 2006/7 were very ordinary. Bowling to Langer, Hayden, Punter, Martyn, Hussey and Gilly were a different proposition. His figures for that series were 1/141 , 0/54, 1/85, 0/23 and 3/98. His figures have improved as our batting has declined. Obviously he probably has got better as a bowler but it helps when you're bowling to a rabble. There's no guarantee that if the batting suddenly improves and puts him under pressure that he can sustain his bowling stats.

Possibly more instructive is to look at his figures last summer against SA putatively the world's best batting line-up.
1/116 2/61, 1/40, 3/76 and 2/73 were nothing to write home against. His previous performance against SA in a game where Morkel and Steyn made merry (Joburg) was 0/111.

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

That 37 was off 41 balls and Anderson did open and ended up with 0/54. Lucky for him he ran him out. But Punter and Langer put him to the sword during that test.

Oh. My. Goddddd. Why didn't Anderson quit there and then? I'm so ashamed. For him, for me... for the entire country.

Brass Monkey wrote:Oh. My. Goddddd. Why didn't Anderson quit there and then? I'm so ashamed. For him, for me... for the entire country.

Even the new and future King is embarrassed

Brass Monkey wrote:Oh. My. Goddddd. Why didn't Anderson quit there and then? I'm so ashamed. For him, for me... for the entire country.

We were discussing in the context of whether or not he would go on for another six years. Of course if he continues to bowl to this rabble he might have another decade.

Red wrote:

embee wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

She probably got jimmy mixed up with saj

Actually remember that pie chucker well.

But Anderson's figures for 2006/7 were very ordinary. Bowling to Langer, Hayden, Punter, Martyn, Hussey and Gilly were a different proposition.  His figures for that series were 1/141 , 0/54, 1/85, 0/23 and 3/98. His figures have improved as our batting has declined. Obviously he probably has got better as a bowler but it helps when you're bowling to a rabble. There's no guarantee that if the batting suddenly improves and puts him under pressure that he can sustain his bowling stats.

Possibly more instructive is to look at his figures last summer against SA putatively the world's best batting line-up.  
 1/116 2/61, 1/40, 3/76 and 2/73 were nothing to write home against.  His previous performance against SA in a game where Morkel and Steyn made merry (Joburg) was 0/111.


     

Red, you do come out with some absolute tripe at times.

No one would argue that JA has had better series than last summer v SA........
and better matches than Jo/burg on 2009/10, against putatively the worlds best batting line-up.

That would be the same top 6 that played at Newlands a fortnight earlier, where our man returned 5/63 and 3/98, at a pretty impressive 20 average - or had they been a complete rabble in Cape Town?

You have a tendency to sometimes use selective stats to re-inforce your argument - but I think you lose sight of the fact that world class batsmen are world class because they regularly score big against even the best bowlers.

To illustrate my point to a ridiculous extreme, using your own terminology - I can't imagine any true cricket fan on earth not putting a certain SK Warne in their top 5 all-time bowlers. So why, when his average against every other side is below 30, can he only manage a miserable 47 against SRT, VVS, Dravid & Co ?

To really drive the point home, although Warnes' overall average against India is 47, it is slightly better away from home, at 43. Our own Ghastly Piles is only 3 runs per wicket overall worse, at 50 - but 10 runs better with an average of 34 in India.

So, in the same way that you've proved Jimmy Anderson hasn't necessarily improved as a bowler - just been facing clueless top-orders, I've shown why Ashley Giles is a better bowler than Shane Warne.

The substansive point - has Jimmy got 6 more years in him ? Who knows. However good, or otherwise the opposition, if he's not flogged into the ground - its possible. If he's regularly bowling 10+ overs in a session because the first change bowler leaks 20 odd runs in 3 overs, then no ...... three maybe 4 more at the top.

Red wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:Don't think Anderson will quite have that longevity. Still have memories of the likes of Hayden plundering him all over the ground. Obviously the terrible Aussie line-up gives the impression he can last forever but as has been mentioned when you're in your thirties, the decline can come swiftly.

Er, he didn't actually.

Hayden's scores in that series - 21, 37, 12, 18, 33, 23*

He got runs in the 2 Tests Anderson didn't play. Anderson had missed the entire English Summer with injury and there was no way he should have been picked, it was a classic Feltcher hunch/nonsense selection. He bowled first or second change on that tour and so Hayden must hardly have batted against him with those low scores.

I was at the Gabba and remember Anderson running Hayden out (the 37), about the only good thing Anderson did on that winter. Didn't get many in the ODI's that tour against him either.

But judging by the way Hayden struggled against Hoggard's swing in England he wouldn't have had a scooby against Anderson swinging it both ways at a slightly quicker pace.

I reckon Anderson can play to 36, he isn't an out and out pace bowler and relies more on skill so barring injury I think he's got plenty of overs in the tank.

That 37 was off 41 balls and Anderson did open and ended up with 0/54. Lucky for him he ran him out. But Punter and Langer put him to the sword during that test.

I can't believe i'm still justifying this with a response, but here you go. Yes, i've just looked it up, Hayden did hit Anderson for 29 runs off 28 balls in that Test. As Monkey says i'm surprised he didn't retire on the spot.

Then Anderson ran him out. Well done Hayden.

In fact he would have already been out earlier by then if Flintoff could catch:

7.5 Anderson to Hayden, FOUR, ooh, dropped. That's gone right through Flintoff's hands, above his head, at first slip, like he was trying to grasp hold of water; there's a hole in his bucket hands.

Gary111, I have a bone to pick with you.

Every time I see that flaming thread title come up, I think (involuntarily, believe me, involuntarily) of a certain crapola song by a justly-buried band called Europe.

Perhaps one of the worst songs ever written and played in the history of humankind. Combines the inspirational hope of a Barry McGuire (Eve of Destruction), with the breathtaking keyboard virtuosity of Crazy Horses (Osmonds) and Hot Butter (by Popcorn? - or was it the other way around?), the tuneful, motivational singing of a cats' chorus, the profundity of a Moody Blues dirge, and the economic opportunism of a Tory front bench chasing an electoral victory. Quite wonderful. ....

Red wrote:His previous performance against SA in a game where Morkel and Steyn made merry (Joburg) was 0/111.

Yes, because that's how you judge a bowler, ignore the previous match when he took 8 wickets and focus on one innings of a game selected in the series where he was unlucky to prove your point - because luck never evens out and much better bowler like McGrath or Warne or Lillee never went wicketless in an innings in their career. The South African batsmen were all over Andersonin this innings, look....

0.3 Anderson to Prince, no run, that's a cracker from Anderson, back of a length and zipped off the seam like a massive offspinner, past Prince's outside edge

0.6 Anderson to Smith, no run, this is quite close, swinging back a long way at Smith, beats his defensive shot and it raps him on the pads. Going over the top.

2.4 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, ooh close here, outside off stump, fraction of swing finds an inside edge, but it flashes wide of off stump, past a diving Prior to the boundary

8.3 Anderson to Prince, no run, massive appeal, as Prince offers no stroke to a nipbacker, and that is so close! But there's going to be a problem with the height, and sensibly England don't review that

8.4 Anderson to Prince, no run, good shape once again, and that beats the edge. Again

10.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, lovely bowling, darting away from Smith from a full length, skips past the edge and Anderson looks to the heavens

23.2 Anderson to Smith, no run, cracking delivery, zipping late back into the pads, and that's a loud appeal. Deep down, however, Anderson knows it's too high and turns down the review

23.5 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, more runs, but less convincing. Hanging the bat outside off, finds a thick edge, and that flies safely through the gap between third slip and gully

44.1 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, finds the edge immediately but it flies safely away to the third man boundary, draws a rueful smile from Jimmy

50.5 Anderson to Amla, no run, whoops, a bit of a wafty inside-edge, onto the pads. He gets away with it

50.6 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, thick outside-edge, through the gap, more runs to the cause. England are looking heaven-wards, and not just for rain.

52.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, awkward lift and Smith winces as it takes the glove. But he's a hard nut

54.1 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, outside off, a loose push, a thick edge, there aren't enough slips to cut that off, and Smith goes to 96

80.1 Anderson to Boucher, no run, turns Boucher around first up with some late outswing, comes off the leading edge but safely towards cover

84.3 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, sharp comeback from Anderson, he whistles one past the edge and de Villiers had a little nibble there, lucky not to get an edge

86.1 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Great start from Anderson after drinks, pushed fuller, and a perfect outswinger beats de Villiers' defensive prod

88.5 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Anderson's moving the ball both ways here. This one nips sharply back in, great seam position, and de Villiers just about keeps it out

106.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, fine delivery, completely squaring Boucher up as it seams from leg to off. A fat edge flies through point

108.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, excellent follow-up, full-length outswinger takes a fat edge, but more runs through the vacant backward point

110.2 Anderson to Boucher, no run, outside off stump, lifting past the edge. There's pace, swing and carry in this surface, which has been sweating under the covers

112.1 Anderson to McLaren, FOUR, fat edge, but it flies safe. More runs, and the 400 is up


Its not like I could just choose a random Test innings against a better batting line-up to selectively push my case. Like 24.2-8-42-5 here:

11.5 Anderson to Dravid, and he gets the Indian captain with the outswinger, pitching on a length and shaping it away from Dravid, who pokes at it and ends up edging to Prior! Superby set up by Anderson 27/2

35.4 Anderson to Tendulkar, gone! Anderson! Full delivery, swinging in from outside off stump, Tendulkar is caught trying to drive to leg, right on the crease, ball hits him in front of leg stump and they all go up in appeal, after a thought Bucknor raises his finger 106/3

62.3 to Ganguly, bowled! Anderson gets a third biggie, pitching it fuller on off stump, getting it to shape back in wonderfully and beat Ganguly's tame prod from the crease, the ball simply jagged back in and snuck through his defenses 155/5

69.5 to Dhoni, gone! He did it again, and this time gave Bell at third slip catching practice! It was short again, not rising too much on him, but Dhoni chooses to play at it with an angled bat, as if he wanted to get over it, and needlessly gave away his wicket before scoring 175/7

77.2 to Khan, Anderson has his fifth! Zaheer tries to pull a short ball to fine leg but ends up gloving it to Strauss at first slip, just rewards for some excellent swing bowling from Anderson 201/10

Wow, he averages 8.4 against possibly the best middle order in the history of the game in this innings. He makes Sydney Barnes look like a pie chucker.

PeterCS wrote:Gary111, I have a bone to pick with you.

Every time I see that flaming thread title come up, I think (involuntarily, believe me, involuntarily) of a certain crapola song by a justly-buried band called Europe.

Perhaps one of the worst songs ever written and played in the history of humankind. Combines the inspirational hope of a Barry McGuire (Eve of Destruction), with the breathtaking keyboard virtuosity of Crazy Horses (Osmonds) and Hot Butter (by Popcorn? - or was it the other way around?), the tuneful, motivational singing of a cats' chorus, the profundity of a Moody Blues dirge, and the economic opportunism of a Tory front bench chasing an electoral victory. Quite wonderful. ....

Do you mean the Final Countdown?

That was a classic. I choke back tears thinking of Richard Whiteley every time I hear it.

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:His previous performance against SA in a game where Morkel and Steyn made merry (Joburg) was 0/111.

Yes, because that's how you judge a bowler, ignore the previous match when he took 8 wickets and focus on one innings of a game selected in the series where he was unlucky to prove your point - because luck never evens out and much better bowler like McGrath or Warne or Lillee never went wicketless in an innings in their career. The South African batsmen were all over Andersonin this innings, look....

0.3  Anderson to Prince, no run, that's a cracker from Anderson, back of a length and zipped off the seam like a massive offspinner, past Prince's outside edge

0.6 Anderson to Smith, no run, this is quite close, swinging back a long way at Smith, beats his defensive shot and it raps him on the pads. Going over the top.

2.4 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, ooh close here, outside off stump, fraction of swing finds an inside edge, but it flashes wide of off stump, past a diving Prior to the boundary

8.3 Anderson to Prince, no run, massive appeal, as Prince offers no stroke to a nipbacker, and that is so close! But there's going to be a problem with the height, and sensibly England don't review that

8.4 Anderson to Prince, no run, good shape once again, and that beats the edge. Again

10.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, lovely bowling, darting away from Smith from a full length, skips past the edge and Anderson looks to the heavens

23.2 Anderson to Smith, no run, cracking delivery, zipping late back into the pads, and that's a loud appeal. Deep down, however, Anderson knows it's too high and turns down the review

23.5 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, more runs, but less convincing. Hanging the bat outside off, finds a thick edge, and that flies safely through the gap between third slip and gully

44.1 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, finds the edge immediately but it flies safely away to the third man boundary, draws a rueful smile from Jimmy

50.5 Anderson to Amla, no run, whoops, a bit of a wafty inside-edge, onto the pads. He gets away with it

50.6 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, thick outside-edge, through the gap, more runs to the cause. England are looking heaven-wards, and not just for rain.

52.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, awkward lift and Smith winces as it takes the glove. But he's a hard nut

54.1 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, outside off, a loose push, a thick edge, there aren't enough slips to cut that off, and Smith goes to 96

80.1 Anderson to Boucher, no run, turns Boucher around first up with some late outswing, comes off the leading edge but safely towards cover

84.3 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, sharp comeback from Anderson, he whistles one past the edge and de Villiers had a little nibble there, lucky not to get an edge

86.1 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Great start from Anderson after drinks, pushed fuller, and a perfect outswinger beats de Villiers' defensive prod

88.5 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Anderson's moving the ball both ways here. This one nips sharply back in, great seam position, and de Villiers just about keeps it out

106.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, fine delivery, completely squaring Boucher up as it seams from leg to off. A fat edge flies through point

108.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, excellent follow-up, full-length outswinger takes a fat edge, but more runs through the vacant backward point

110.2 Anderson to Boucher, no run, outside off stump, lifting past the edge. There's pace, swing and carry in this surface, which has been sweating under the covers

112.1 Anderson to McLaren, FOUR, fat edge, but it flies safe. More runs, and the 400 is up


Its not like I could just choose a random Test innings against a better batting line-up to selectively push my case. Like 24.2-8-42-5 here:

11.5 Anderson to Dravid, and he gets the Indian captain with the outswinger, pitching on a length and shaping it away from Dravid, who pokes at it and ends up edging to Prior! Superby set up by Anderson 27/2

35.4 Anderson to Tendulkar, gone! Anderson! Full delivery, swinging in from outside off stump, Tendulkar is caught trying to drive to leg, right on the crease, ball hits him in front of leg stump and they all go up in appeal, after a thought Bucknor raises his finger 106/3

62.3 to Ganguly, bowled! Anderson gets a third biggie, pitching it fuller on off stump, getting it to shape back in wonderfully and beat Ganguly's tame prod from the crease, the ball simply jagged back in and snuck through his defenses 155/5

69.5 to Dhoni, gone! He did it again, and this time gave Bell at third slip catching practice! It was short again, not rising too much on him, but Dhoni chooses to play at it with an angled bat, as if he wanted to get over it, and needlessly gave away his wicket before scoring 175/7

77.2 to Khan, Anderson has his fifth! Zaheer tries to pull a short ball to fine leg but ends up gloving it to Strauss at first slip, just rewards for some excellent swing bowling from Anderson 201/10

Wow, he averages 8.4 against possibly the best middle order in the history of the game in this innings. He makes Sydney Barnes look like a pie chucker.

Right, let's put this to bed: Anderson would walk into any current test side. He would certainly make the Aussie side - he can at least stand up for two tests on the bounce!

He is without doubt in the top five English seamers of the last 40 years or so. - the others being Snow, Willis, Botham and Gough. No amount of lame finessing of the stats by Red will alter this.

I kept expecting to see that over to Ponting that Dello famously described as proof of Anderson's greatness...

That was easily the best over he's ever bowled.

Okay, by popular demand:

Dello wrote:In case you missed it yesterday: Pure gold on commentary feedback that came in during the SA v Aus ODI last night. The bowler's Anderson, the batsman's Ponting, the action is imagined (we think), and 'Dello' is your commentator.

36.1 Anderson to Ponting, no run, A JAFFA! Full, swings late, Ponting lurches like an inebriated pensioner on a skateboard, somehow the ball evades bat, gloves, stumps and everything.

After 45 balls, Ponting's still not off the mark. And he's not likely to be any time soon if Anderson keeps bowling these cluster-bombs of high jaffery.

36.2 Anderson to Ponting, no run, A SNORTER!!! Straight out of Snortsville, Carolina, Ponting is left fumbling around for his reading glasses by a short ball that reared up like a gay ostrich and pecked at his grill. Anderson follows through with a few choice words. Lip readers among you might have made out "hermaphrodite".

36.3 Anderson to Ponting, no run, THE McGARNAGLE!!!! Oooh, Jimmy's delving deep into his box of tricks today! Ponting wrongly plays for the away swing and is left looking a real casserole of nonsense by the McGarnagle, which cuts him in half and then quarters and then just keeps on chopping until his mutilated corpse is nothing more than a squinty pulp. England appeal for something, but the umpire is too traumatised by what he's witnessed to react.

36.4 Anderson to Ponting, no run, AN ABSOLUTE CLINTON!!!!!! What is happening out there? Curves in awkwardly, almost at right angles, and Ponting wears it on the chest. Clinton residue all over his shirt. That'll never wash out. England still banging at the door, but so far, no cigar.

What an over this is from Anderson. Four balls. Four brutes. Four Weddings is on TV tonight, I noticed while reading the paper over breakfast. Slice of melon and gram of coke, in case you were wondering.

36.5 Anderson to Ponting, no run, A SCENTED PANDA HAMMER!!!!!!! WHOAHZERS!!!!! That seemed to swing in at least three directions. Is that even possible?! Ricky can't lay a bat on it and - oh, he's down! And up again! Staggering! And down again! And up! Completely bamboozled, he seems to not know where he is. OH MY GOD!! Ponting has taken off his shirt and one of his shoes and is just shambling around the field. Is he crying? Some of the England boys are trying to help him but he's thrashing his bat at them and growling. Hello, what's this? Ever the opportunist, Kevin Pietersen tries to take advantage of Ponting's walkabout by shying at the stumps but misses by three yards. And that's gone for four. But the umpires are signalling dead ball. It's chaos. The Aussie team doctor is on the pitch now, along with the physio and the mascot, Steve Smith. They seem to be calming Ponting down, showing him pictures of his family. Yes, there's some recognition there. His marbles are on the way back. WHOAHNNO, there they go again!! A picture of his kids has thrown him back over the edge like some kind of demented lifebelt. He's spinning on the spot (a nice homage to the Tasmanian Devil) furiously, screaming "little Ricky people!!!" from what I can make out on the stump mic. This is awkward. The team fertility consultant's on the field now. I guess he's about to explain where babies come from. This is going to get worse before it gets better...

The umpires call drinks.

And we're back. Apparently the website went down for the duration of what will surely be referred to in all the papers tomorrow as "The Incident", for which we apologise, but with Ian Bell having been taken into protective custody, the sacrificed lamb's blood mopped up from the square, the affected part of the Joe Mangle Stand quarantined and Dr. Susan something Greek-sounding now acting as Ponting's runner and/or life coach, James Anderson's at his mark ready to complete what has thus far been a very interesting over.

36.6 Anderson to Ponting, FOUR, BUM GRAVY. After all that, Jimmy loses his line and spaffs one miles down the leg side. Prior makes a valiant dive, but unfortunately in the wrong direction. Four byes, and a slightly anticlimaxtic end to the over.

Andrew is telling me that anticlimaxtic isn't a word. But he tried to slip refuddle past me in a game of strip Scrabble the other day, so our bond of trust isn't in the healthiest state at present. Anticlimaxtic a word? E:mails to the usual address. We'll get to the bottom of this by tea.

Brass Monkey wrote:That was easily the best over he's ever bowled.

Dello? Or The Burrnli Exx-press?

Gary 111 wrote:

PeterCS wrote:Gary111, I have a bone to pick with you.

Every time I see that flaming thread title come up, I think (involuntarily, believe me, involuntarily) of a certain crapola song by a justly-buried band called Europe.

Perhaps one of the worst songs ever written and played in the history of humankind. Combines the inspirational hope of a Barry McGuire (Eve of Destruction), with the breathtaking keyboard virtuosity of Crazy Horses (Osmonds) and Hot Butter (by Popcorn? - or was it the other way around?), the tuneful, motivational singing of a cats' chorus, the profundity of a Moody Blues dirge, and the economic opportunism of a Tory front bench chasing an electoral victory. Quite wonderful. ....

Do you mean the Final Countdown?

That was a classic. I choke back tears thinking of Richard Whiteley every time I hear it.

It drives me to tears as well.

pattinson - 07/13

Basil wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:

Red wrote:His previous performance against SA in a game where Morkel and Steyn made merry (Joburg) was 0/111.

Yes, because that's how you judge a bowler, ignore the previous match when he took 8 wickets and focus on one innings of a game selected in the series where he was unlucky to prove your point - because luck never evens out and much better bowler like McGrath or Warne or Lillee never went wicketless in an innings in their career. The South African batsmen were all over Andersonin this innings, look....

0.3  Anderson to Prince, no run, that's a cracker from Anderson, back of a length and zipped off the seam like a massive offspinner, past Prince's outside edge

0.6 Anderson to Smith, no run, this is quite close, swinging back a long way at Smith, beats his defensive shot and it raps him on the pads. Going over the top.

2.4 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, ooh close here, outside off stump, fraction of swing finds an inside edge, but it flashes wide of off stump, past a diving Prior to the boundary

8.3 Anderson to Prince, no run, massive appeal, as Prince offers no stroke to a nipbacker, and that is so close! But there's going to be a problem with the height, and sensibly England don't review that

8.4 Anderson to Prince, no run, good shape once again, and that beats the edge. Again

10.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, lovely bowling, darting away from Smith from a full length, skips past the edge and Anderson looks to the heavens

23.2 Anderson to Smith, no run, cracking delivery, zipping late back into the pads, and that's a loud appeal. Deep down, however, Anderson knows it's too high and turns down the review

23.5 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, more runs, but less convincing. Hanging the bat outside off, finds a thick edge, and that flies safely through the gap between third slip and gully

44.1 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, finds the edge immediately but it flies safely away to the third man boundary, draws a rueful smile from Jimmy

50.5 Anderson to Amla, no run, whoops, a bit of a wafty inside-edge, onto the pads. He gets away with it

50.6 Anderson to Amla, FOUR, thick outside-edge, through the gap, more runs to the cause. England are looking heaven-wards, and not just for rain.

52.1 Anderson to Smith, no run, awkward lift and Smith winces as it takes the glove. But he's a hard nut

54.1 Anderson to Smith, FOUR, outside off, a loose push, a thick edge, there aren't enough slips to cut that off, and Smith goes to 96

80.1 Anderson to Boucher, no run, turns Boucher around first up with some late outswing, comes off the leading edge but safely towards cover

84.3 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, sharp comeback from Anderson, he whistles one past the edge and de Villiers had a little nibble there, lucky not to get an edge

86.1 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Great start from Anderson after drinks, pushed fuller, and a perfect outswinger beats de Villiers' defensive prod

88.5 Anderson to de Villiers, no run, Anderson's moving the ball both ways here. This one nips sharply back in, great seam position, and de Villiers just about keeps it out

106.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, fine delivery, completely squaring Boucher up as it seams from leg to off. A fat edge flies through point

108.2 Anderson to Boucher, 2 runs, excellent follow-up, full-length outswinger takes a fat edge, but more runs through the vacant backward point

110.2 Anderson to Boucher, no run, outside off stump, lifting past the edge. There's pace, swing and carry in this surface, which has been sweating under the covers

112.1 Anderson to McLaren, FOUR, fat edge, but it flies safe. More runs, and the 400 is up


Its not like I could just choose a random Test innings against a better batting line-up to selectively push my case. Like 24.2-8-42-5 here:

11.5 Anderson to Dravid, and he gets the Indian captain with the outswinger, pitching on a length and shaping it away from Dravid, who pokes at it and ends up edging to Prior! Superby set up by Anderson 27/2

35.4 Anderson to Tendulkar, gone! Anderson! Full delivery, swinging in from outside off stump, Tendulkar is caught trying to drive to leg, right on the crease, ball hits him in front of leg stump and they all go up in appeal, after a thought Bucknor raises his finger 106/3

62.3 to Ganguly, bowled! Anderson gets a third biggie, pitching it fuller on off stump, getting it to shape back in wonderfully and beat Ganguly's tame prod from the crease, the ball simply jagged back in and snuck through his defenses 155/5

69.5 to Dhoni, gone! He did it again, and this time gave Bell at third slip catching practice! It was short again, not rising too much on him, but Dhoni chooses to play at it with an angled bat, as if he wanted to get over it, and needlessly gave away his wicket before scoring 175/7

77.2 to Khan, Anderson has his fifth! Zaheer tries to pull a short ball to fine leg but ends up gloving it to Strauss at first slip, just rewards for some excellent swing bowling from Anderson 201/10

Wow, he averages 8.4 against possibly the best middle order in the history of the game in this innings. He makes Sydney Barnes look like a pie chucker.

Right, let's put this to bed: Anderson would walk into any current test side. He would certainly make the Aussie side - he can at least stand up for two tests on the bounce!

He is without doubt in the top five English seamers of the last 40 years or so. - the others being Snow, Willis, Botham and Gough. No amount of lame finessing of the stats by Red will alter this.

I think you're moving the goalposts though. The thread was about when players will play their final test. I contested the notion that Anderson will play another six years. I used fairly recent performances against very good opposition to suggest that as he ages he will find it hard to sustain his place at the top against the best players. I did qualify the statement by saying that he could play forever against the rabble currently masquerading as our batting line-up.

Um, I think you moved the goalposts when you claimed Hayden plundered JA all over the grounds.

Time for a table. Yeah, Jimmy may only be cleaning up rabble, but he's being doing that for basically four years. You could argue he was pretty out of sorts from the Sri Lankan tour all the way through to the Indian tour, or you could say that he'll go missing against the best. Either way, we're only playing the best once in a blue moon. I'm not saying he'll go on for six more years, I'm saying that it was the most infantile reasoning as to why he won't go on for six more years.

Since the start of 2009:

Country	Wkt	Ave	Econ	S/R	5Fer	10Fer	BBI	BBM
Australia	49	28.67	3.06	56.2	3	1	5/73	10/158
Bangladesh	9	24.77	2.65	56	0	0	4/78	5/162
India	33	27.36	3.07	53.4	1	0	5/65	7/152
New Zealand	19	26.42	2.92	54.2	1	0	5/47	7/70
Pakistan	32	17.65	2.27	46.5	2	1	6/17	11/71
South Africa	25	36.56	2.94	74.5	1	0	5/63	8/161
Sri Lanka	16	24.93	2.59	57.7	1	0	5/72	5/98
West Indies	29	26.86	2.55	63	1	0	5/87	9/125

BTW, the above table consists of 212 wickets at 26ish. Let's not disregard his earlier career, but let's not be that childish that we cannot recognise the improvement in him. 2009 is a good sample period because that's approximately when he'd mastered his control, to add to the promise of swinging it both ways prodigiously from about 2007 onwards.