Retirement age

A serious question for once(if that can work)

I have been thinking about this for some time as I reach a certain age. I understand different countries fund this differently but am interested as to others see it here. Yes, some of us are closer to it than others.

In the past two years or so I have been watching friends and acquaintances retire. Some reasonably comfortably and others not. None seem overly happy.

So the question(s) are:

At what age do think you can retire at a fair standard of living?

Is it obtainable?

Do you have to make additional provision over and above state funding?

Here in SA the state pension is laughable and you have to make additional arrangements for medical care as the state care is deplorable.

Wondering how other countries view it.

Retirement? Nigh unto death, I'm afraid. If it's bad in South Africa, and I'm sure it is, don't torture yourself with imaginings that it's far better in the UK or Australia. Only a fool would PLAN to receive and subsist on a pension in the future.

In Australia, most likely within the next few years, there won't be any pension available to those who have paid tax and who have paid compulsory superannuation ... they will be means tested out of eligibility and will all just have to have managed and continue to manage their own funds as best they can, and hope or even ensure that they die before the money runs out. A one way ticket to Mexico and Nembutal will look like an attractive option to many. Those who have had limited or poorly remunerated employment during their working years will be able to subsist in their 'retirement' on a meagre pension which will enable them to continue the hand to mouth existence, dulled by tobacco and alcohol, that they have endured to that point, and to which they have by necessity adapted.

'Medical care' will still be available and affordable in hospitals and multi-doctor supermarket-style medical practices; and it will be 'free', but it will be low level, as the quality of graduates is continually eroded, good medical practice is insidiously undermined by bureaucracy and maladministration, waiting lists everywhere are progressively bloated by obese whining entitled breathless smoke-ruined punters queuing up relentlessly for their compo for sore backs and/or work certificates for their runny noses, or being admitted and readmitted to hospital so often that a 'frequent flyer' scheme could be considered, and all whilst the moderately elderly who are actually unwell are subtly channelled into "active palliation" (nudge nudge, wink wink ... unstated terminal sedation, or euthanasia, where the patient's quality of life is adjudged not by the patient, but by a jaded medico who may have spent little or even no face to face time with that patient). These depressing trends are all well advanced already ...

The system is broken, and running downhill at breakneck speed.

Anyone need cheering up?

Well basically only those that have no income will receive a state pension here so that is basically out of the window.

Is the superannuation self funded or subsidised by employers?

My old boy retired at the age of 71-72, I don't think he likes it. He's starting to drift into old age in the brain when he didn't have to be active. We were poor forever, but since he's retired I realised how well they've both done, they've got comfortable teacher's pensions and had a wedge to pay off the mortgage.

I, on the other hand, have never even tthought about one until I was forced to pay the mandatory 1%. Now I have thought about it, I'm thinking 'shiiiittt'. But I'm also confident that the world will have gone to such shit by the time I am old, that pensions will mean f*ck all. Maybe that, or I'll be loooonnnngggg dead. Either way, I'll be the winner. I win.

Employers have to pay a percentage into their employees super fund & employees can then choose to top this up via salary sacrifice.

Brass Monkey wrote:My old boy retired at the age of 71-72, I don't think he likes it. He's starting to drift into old age in the brain when he didn't have to be active.

I've never got that bit about people not enjoying retirement. It has always been my aim to retire as soon as humanly possible/practical. The slowest day doing nothing has to me has always been less boring than the busiest day at work.

But then my brain is less active when at work then when at rest. Sometimes reading Bucky's posts was the only thing that kept me sane whilst trying to look busy sitting at my desk.

The way he sees it is that he no longer has a purpose and is now just waiting to do. It's the brain not being active thing - he was so desperate, he took up courses in Chinese, architecture, programming in Python and town planning. That's pretty damned desperate.

I just can't see it really, I think I'd love it. But as you say, the brain is active. I'm pretty much working solid every week day from 8am til gone 10pm, so I've no time to stew in my own f*cking mental head.

Hey Dello.

I've a new tagline for FB:

The Forum that cheers you up no end

... And then you die.

I am (similar to Taipan) watching friends and colleagues retire.

I think I am an un-reconstructed bloke. Work is a defining characteristic (rightly or wrongly) for many blokes. Many including me find work intrinsic to drawing breath (and then exhaling smoke from a cuban).

I suspect I will be dragged kicking out of the workplace. I love fishing and golf and sport and reading and the usual pastimes. But I worry that passing time is what these pursuits are.

I enjoy work, the thinking and the people and the learning. I am disciplined at work but undisciplined outside when I have too much time on my hands. Money is not a motivator for me.

Recently I have noted my powers (such as they were) are waning. I can no longer do 12 hour day repetitions and have to pull the doona over my head every Friday night...more recently I have spent several Saturdays having long naps during the day (have never done this before).

I do some voluntary work and look after some youngsters already, but that is not enough.

Maybe my instinctive drives are to labour. I am lucky. I am engrossed in my work but time is on the march.

For me, my life is a nightmare and it's only work that makes it so. Working for the clampdown makes me ruined to the point that I'm sure I should have shattered by now. Hefty sessions of twattish debauchery keep me on an even keel, after such a braintax, which isn't right. Even now, at 11pm, I'm thinking of heading out for a couple of hours carousing. Retirement cannot come quick enough.

BM...I urge you to find another job where your skills are valued (beyond whatever the pay is)

Yeah cheers man, you're probably right, I've got another job lined up it's five grand more but more travel. So I don't know if I'm taking it. It's the fact I'm doing three jobs that's the real killer, the other two are linked my full time job, so I'm in a bit of a pickle.

I'm hoping that the other two are going to become a gravy train in about a year, after another year's slog. So I'm in a bit of a quandary as to the best option. I find I'm exceptionally resentful from 9 to 5, which is the part  I'm finding the most difficult to cope with.

At the end of the day though,  it's a harsh time, but I've got perspective. I know how fortunate I am to have such decisions to make.

Most people aren't even half as lucky... I've been there, when I've been begging for jobs and people don't want to know, you don't even know where the next meal is coming from. When it does come, it's Happy Shopper cornflakes with a dash of milk. The desperate panic when you're completely focked and you have no clue how you're going to get out of it - now THAT'S a problem.

G.Wood wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:My old boy retired at the age of 71-72, I don't think he likes it. He's starting to drift into old age in the brain when he didn't have to be active.

I've never got that bit about people not enjoying retirement.  It has always been my aim to retire as soon as humanly possible/practical.  The slowest day doing nothing has to me has always been less boring than the busiest day at work.

But then my brain is less active when at work then when at rest. Sometimes reading Bucky's posts was the only thing that kept me sane whilst trying to look busy sitting at my desk.

Word!!

And adding to BD's post, Aus employers currently have a compulsory contribution of 9.5% of the employee's salary to a super fund. As BD says, you can salary sacrifice (and would be mad if you didn't!! MrK may have alternative views ) to top up your superannuation fund balance account. The compulsory employer contribution is being slowly ramped up to 12% in Aus over next few years.

I've heard both sides of the argument on retirement (particularly early retirement, which folk of my age can access when they turn 55), and I just don't buy the "you HAVE TO work, or you'll waste away and become a vegetable" line. If my biggest problem in life each morning is "Hmm, what am gonna do today??" then life will be fookin sweet!!

My mum is still working and I've got a MASSIVE mortgage.

Retirement seems a LONG way away.

Also, having seen my grandmother go downhill dramatically after she retired, it's not something I would recommend rushing into if you enjoy work.

JGK wrote:Also, having seen my grandmother go downhill dramatically after she retired, it's not something I would recommend rushing into if you enjoy work.

And that's the key, MrK. I have said many times to anyone who'll listen that I am envious of those folk who get up each morning and can't wait to get to work. I suspect taips is not one of those, and I definitely wouldn't count myself in that category. I know Woody is not a "I love work" merchant, and neither clearly is Dan. I know horrie enjoys the 9-5 regimen. "They" say only 5% of the working population actually love their jobs. I have often desperately wished I was in that 5%. The number of posts against my name in this joint is a testament to my "love" of my job.

skully wrote:

G.Wood wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:My old boy retired at the age of 71-72, I don't think he likes it. He's starting to drift into old age in the brain when he didn't have to be active.

I've never got that bit about people not enjoying retirement.  It has always been my aim to retire as soon as humanly possible/practical.  The slowest day doing nothing has to me has always been less boring than the busiest day at work.

But then my brain is less active when at work then when at rest. Sometimes reading Bucky's posts was the only thing that kept me sane whilst trying to look busy sitting at my desk.

Word!!

And adding to BD's post, Aus employers currently have a compulsory contribution of 9.5% of the employee's salary to a super fund. As BD says, you can salary sacrifice (and would be mad if you didn't!! MrK may have alternative views ) to top up your superannuation fund balance account. The compulsory employer contribution is being slowly ramped up to 12% in Aus over next few years.

I've heard both sides of the argument on retirement (particularly early retirement, which folk of my age can access when they turn 55), and I just don't buy the "you HAVE TO work, or you'll waste away and become a vegetable" line. If my biggest problem in life each morning is "Hmm, what am gonna do today??" then life will be fookin sweet!!

I used to salary sacrifice out of the compulsory super, figuring that I would get paid more as I got older so valued the cash more now, despite the tax advantage. I'd still rather pay off the mortgage than put any more into super than I have to.

Of course, MrK. Killing the mortgage has to be the no. 1 priority, which was certainly my strategy until I achieved that aim. I would always go for extra mortgage payments over super salary sacrifice.

My comment about alternative strategies was more aimed at a comment you made some time back about "there are ways" regarding avoiding personal super accounts. I think at the time you had alternate investments-for-the-future strategies.

a really interesting discussion.....one correction Skully...I tend to work 10+ hour days...

typical daily routine is
5.00 wake up

5.30 now on 3rd coffee and 4th smoke...open work papers, read and scribble notes...listen to radio

7.00 get ready for work and walk in (takes a 15 minute saunter from where I live)

7.30 at desk furiously tapping away on carp needing to be done that morning...

9.00 meetings and tappity tap until 6.30pm ...used to be able to plough on but unless I am in blind panic and get an adrenalin rush I stagger off home.

I have two golden rules - I will not work at home before bedtime and I will not have a laptop (avoids temptation- gave my mum my laptop).

Needless to say over many decades I have proved to be not the easiest person to live with. Those of the ex Mrs H persuasion have invariably complained about my sleeping and work habits (among the myriad of other justifiable complaints).

I am lucky...more often than not I have been able to do work that I like and value...both the blue and white collar varieties

My take on the issue is simple. At age 17 I buried my father who, having left school at 14 died age 52. Ten years later I buried father-in-law who, having left school at 14 died age 55.

They were two of the finest men anyone could ever hope to meet in their life. After that second funeral, in a moment of contemplation, it struck me that both dads had died having only ever known school and work - and vowed there and then to myself that if I had any sort of control over my circumstances that I wouldn't do the same.

I'll be 55 later this year, and most readers will consider me fortunate to have been receiving a service pension for the last 12 years for giving 22 prime years to Aunty Betty. They'll be right - I'm glad I get it, because those 22 years of standing beneath Olympus, Spey and RB199 engines at full chat has shot my top-end hearing to shit, and I worked with all manner of stuff, some of which was banned years ago - in a workplace culture regarding Health & Safety, Environment issues and Control of Hazardous substances that under-30s simply wouldn't recognise.

On leaving the service, I worked for myself for about seven years, until failing health forced me to do fewer and fewer hours, and eventually stop altogether for a few years. The pension paid the essential bills and kept the wolf from the door. My partners wages from part-time cleaning allowed a few luxuries - luckily we've both got simple tastes and pleasures, and have an absolute abhorrence of waste of any kind.

My health issues have been under control for some time now so, like my partner, I also took a part time cleaning job at a local school. OK, its minimum wage and I'm way over-qualified - but the hours suit, there's no stress, and plenty of holidays.  I don't see myself as a part-time worker - I consider myself semi-retired, and I can honestly say I'm reasonably content with my lot.

For sure, a lottery win or my premium bonds being drawn would make a difference. I don't mean millions - I wouldn't know how to spend that kind of money ........ but say £200K or so would clear the mortgage, get a more reliable car, and travel to a few places I've always wanted to see. The main thing would be that I'd no longer worry about ordinary bills landing on the doormat.

Our relevant Minister's view on it all today:

"This can be an ageing boom not an ageing bust for the country," says ScoMo of his vision of the future with more people working for longer and with better health.

"It's good for their family, it's good for their income," he says of mature aged women in particular. "The pension is not a lavish payment. If you're healthy and you're happy in your work please continue to do so."

"Every Christmas the grandchildren will be stoked."

"If you're healthy and you're happy in your work please continue to do so."

key phrase

The full quote for what it's worth:

One of the ways you can supplement and support and increase your income in older years is to work longer and if you’re healthy and happy in your work then please keep going. That’s what we’d like you to do.

It’s good for you, it’s good for your family, it’s good for the country and every Christmas the grandchildren will be stoked, absolutely stoked.

So I would encourage you, even for your grand children and that happy smile on that wonderful morning, to work those few extra years.

I don't mind the job that much. It's the 5am alarm and the hour drive each way that is the killer.

But on the other hand I don't exactly fear retirement except for the money bit. Plenty of books to read, bowls to play, movies to watch.

The only thing is, no one knows how much you need. A few know their magic figure but they ain't sharing. One thing I have always said, when I'm done im done. No grubbing around for a few extra bucks. That's the plan anyway

It’s good for you, it’s good for your family, it’s good for the country and every Christmas the grandchildren will be stoked, absolutely stoked.

...the extra income will also come in handy for monthly tithes to your local hunker down and testify church and for supplementing the income of charismatic school chaplains via the tax system

h

I'd like ScoMo to do a good job where he is

1 It would improve the welfare system ...hopefully he'll be fair and not mean ( I know a big stretch for the Libs)

2 It would mean 2 portfolios ...2 successes ...and I think that would make him the best candidate for PM (on either side)

PS I dont give a ****** about his religious beliefs as recently we've put up with 3 god botherers and an atheist and they all bend their beliefs if the poll results are the wrong way