England v South Africa, 4th Test, Old Trafford, 4-8 August, 2017

horace wrote:The wondrous influence of I Ron extends to the current and hopefully the future pom middle order

We'd certainly take the Belf in his prime right now...

Even the current shadow of his former self would probably contribute more than we've had from most of our top order batsmen recently. If he'd so much as averaged 40 in county cricket the last couple of years we'd have probably seen him recalled.

The selectors are caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure their preference would be for Hameed to open, but he's making it virtually impossible for them to pick him as his current form is even worse than Jennings.

Westley looks okay at the crease to me - certainly more so than Jennings. I think he'll come good.

Malan? hmmm. I'm guessing he'll get at least the first test against the Windies, but we will have to look elsewhere after that if he hasn't scored some runs.

Cue recall for Alex Hales as a middle-order batsman?

Basil wrote:The selectors are caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure their preference would be for Hameed to open, but he's making it virtually impossible for them to pick him as his current form is even worse than Jennings.

Westley looks okay at the crease to me - certainly more so than Jennings. I think he'll come good.

Malan? hmmm. I'm guessing he'll get at least the first test against the Windies, but we will have to look elsewhere after that if he hasn't scored some runs.

Cue recall for Alex Hales as a middle-order batsman?

Is the Windies attack a good barometer of potential test standard performances?

skully wrote:Have to say that the Aus pace trio/quartet that will line up this summer will be licking their lips at the prospect of bowling to the likes of Jennings, Westley and Malan, if they are the best England can send down under. Cook, Root, Stokes and Bairstow are a different story.

Cook has looked scratchy at times and has been vulnerable in the first innings. Of course if the pitches are super flat he may well reprise his skyscraping scoring role of summers past. The SA attack is not bad but has been sans Steyn, Abbott and for a large time Philander, so his series has been modest.

Red wrote:

skully wrote:Have to say that the Aus pace trio/quartet that will line up this summer will be licking their lips at the prospect of bowling to the likes of Jennings, Westley and Malan, if they are the best England can send down under. Cook, Root, Stokes and Bairstow are a different story.

Cook has looked scratchy at times and has been vulnerable in the first innings. Of course if the pitches are super flat he may well reprise his skyscraping scoring role of summers past. The SA attack is not bad but has been sans Steyn, Abbott and for a large time Philander, so his series has been modest.

You keep bringing up Abbott, and once again I ask you who would be dropped for him?

I wonder if Bell might yet get a gig on the tour - experienced, could play middle order or open. Fantasy?

Back to this game, though ... how much rain is around; might there be enough to save the Saffies who would otherwise need to bat out 160+ overs?

(not that it would take them that long to make 380)

SAf 3-40 at Lunch (Bavuma out last ball) to be totally farked up the arse.

SAf need Hash and Faf to bat for 2 sessions to save this and still lose the series 1-2. Can't see it.

Or even five sessions.

Rain may help.

SA's batting continues to be mega fragile. Is the Elgar/Kuhn combination the worst opening partnership ever?

So a poorly planned, poorly managed and poorly selected tour comes limping to an end.

I wish I could hope that it would lead to a clean out, but I guess Domingo will be scapegoat. At least that is a step in the right direction.

taipan wrote:So a poorly planned, poorly managed and poorly selected tour comes limping to an end.

I wish I could hope that it would lead to a clean out, but I guess Domingo will be scapegoat. At least that is a step in the right direction.

Is the rumour of Gibson taking his job rumour or fact?

Only 300 runs to go, still 7 wickets in hand.

South Africa in with a show?

It's hard to watch.

Now 215 to go with 7 wickets in hand.

That Moeen innings is looking pretty important.

Red wrote:

Basil wrote:The selectors are caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure their preference would be for Hameed to open, but he's making it virtually impossible for them to pick him as his current form is even worse than Jennings.

Westley looks okay at the crease to me - certainly more so than Jennings. I think he'll come good.

Malan? hmmm. I'm guessing he'll get at least the first test against the Windies, but we will have to look elsewhere after that if he hasn't scored some runs.

Cue recall for Alex Hales as a middle-order batsman?

Is the Windies attack a good barometer of potential test standard performances?

In English conditions with the weather as it is, The Windies quicks might be a handful.

lardbucket wrote:I wonder if Bell might yet get a gig on the tour - experienced, could play middle order or open. Fantasy?

No form to speak of since he was discarded, seems to have settled for a county captain's role to finish off his career. As for opening, remember the Trott experiment?

Hales made 200 today, may be a decent bet for a second chance at number 5? Gives a bit more direct weight to his case beyond his phenomenal limited overs form (if Malan can get a shot off the back of one decent JAMITT knock...)

Anyway, with Amla and Faf set it looked like it could get nervous today but the Yarpies then folded like a pack of cards once the breakthrough came. If they're the number 2 side it doesn't say much for Test cricket, even if they are missing a couple of key men. I guess everyone has the same issues with top order batting in this day and age, old fashioned Test batsmen are so hard to find.

Saffies self-destructing again against a good but not great attack. Australia will score big this winter for a 3-1 series win at a guess.

This was a disappointing result for those who love a contest.

Moeen Ali looks to be the key man in the attack - why look for a number one spinner when your all-rounder is anything but "number two"? The only obvious weaknesses in the side that played for England here are the opening position and the number 4-5 (Malan) spot. I suspect all others in the side can plan their Ashes trip now, and perhaps Malan and maybe even Jennings too, with Hales, Buttler, Wood/Plunkett, and A N Other spinner completing a 15 man squad.  It all looks fairly settled after this demolition of SA, with only Jennings and Malan uncertain of their tour spots at this stage.

If it was up to me, Stokes, Bairstow and Moeen would move up one with Rashid getting the second spinner's berth. But I doubt if that will happen in the first test against The Windies, which is being played under lights with no indication that the weather is going to settle down.

Yeah, no point whatsoever playing two spinners in conditions where seamers will generally run through the opposition.

Playing a specialist batsman at 8 could even be an option... or even Woakes as yet another all-rounder with the others moving up one, even if it means someone will be seriously under-bowled.

Playing six bowlers will need to be an option in Oz where the ball will not swing after the first dozen overs or so.

Well, if Stokes, Woakes and Ali are three of them then we will still genuinely bat down to 8. Remember the days of trying desperately to find someone who vaguely qualified as an all-rounder (c. 1992-2002)? If only we were so spoilt for top order batsmen...

Still no need for 6 bowlers against WI in damp, swinging conditions though. Use that series to try out a batsman or two.

JGK wrote:Now 215 to go with 7 wickets in hand.

That Moeen innings is looking pretty important.

Looks like I triggered a 7/40 collapse.

Doesn't take much to trigger a Yarpitulation these days...

I rather suspected it'd all happen pretty quickly once I went to bed. I sat through most of the Hash/Faf 100 stand before the zzzzzs took over.

Well done England and Mo in particular. A thoroughly convincing series win for Blighty.