The Voice

No not the TV talent show run by Simon Cowell, but a referendum allegedly being put to the people of Australia later this year.

From the govt website:

"In late 2023, Australians will have their say in a referendum about whether to change the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

The Voice would be an independent and permanent advisory body. It would give advice to the Australian Parliament and Government on matters that affect the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have called for members of the Voice to be chosen by First Nations peoples based on the wishes of local communities."

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Do Aussies in here have a view?

I'm very interested to hear what horrie's thoughts might be given his close association with Indigenous Affairs.

Personally, I don't think Labor have sold this thing very well at all, with very little detail still available as to what exactly "a Voice" for the Indigenous actually means. And to make changes to our Constitution with so little details worries me a bit, no, a lot.

And we now have Senator Linda Burney (Indigenous herself) essentially throwing a combination of begging and threatening at the Electorate to vote "yes". When asked simple questions like "Could the Advisory Body change the date of Australia Day", her answer was "oh they wouldn't do that". She really has no clue.

This is the crux of the matter. Exactly what will the powers of the Advisory Body be? Nobody seems to know. Albo says the Legals Eagles are working it all out as we speak. A bit late, Albo (Aus PM, Anthony Albanese).

And I really resent the immediate calls of "RACIST" when people have the "hide" to actually ask what this proposal will mean for All Australians. This is a forever change to the Australian Constitution. Shirley we have a right to know exactly what the consequences of a yes vote are??

At the moment polls are running at Yes - 41%, No - 48%, Undecided - 11%.

Thoughts, folks? h, please edumicate me!!

The 'Australia Day' question is this ref's equivalent to the 'change The Flag' brouhaha that the Melb & Syd LPFSPs never let the punters get past in the Republic version of this barn-dance, and the DBSP States were never seriously in the market anyway.

Anybody who has the Carlton flag/Rick Wakeman double: the Blues are the soft leg. Similar if you swap Carlton for just about anybody except (maybe) WC or North, or Dave Warner as MOM in both remaining Ashes Tests (for his bowling).

skully wrote:No not the TV talent show run by Simon Cowell, but a referendum allegedly being put to the people of Australia later this year.

From the govt website:

"In late 2023, Australians will have their say in a referendum about whether to change the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

The Voice would be an independent and permanent advisory body. It would give advice to the Australian Parliament and Government on matters that affect the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have called for members of the Voice to be chosen by First Nations peoples based on the wishes of local communities."

---------------------------------------------------------

Do Aussies in here have a view?

I'm very interested to hear what horrie's thoughts might be given his close association with Indigenous Affairs.

Personally, I don't think Labor have sold this thing very well at all, with very little detail still available as to what exactly "a Voice" for the Indigenous actually means. And to make changes to our Constitution with so little details worries me a bit, no, a lot.

And we now have Senator Linda Burney (Indigenous herself) essentially throwing a combination of begging and threatening at the Electorate to vote "yes". When asked simple questions like "Could the Advisory Body change the date of Australia Day", her answer was "oh they wouldn't do that". She really has no clue.

This is the crux of the matter. Exactly what will the powers of the Advisory Body be? Nobody seems to know. Albo says the Legals Eagles are working it all out as we speak. A bit late, Albo (Aus PM, Anthony Albanese).

And I really resent the immediate calls of "RACIST" when people have the "hide" to actually ask what this proposal will mean for All Australians. This is a forever change to the Australian Constitution. Shirley we have a right to know exactly what the consequences of a yes vote are??

At the moment polls are running at Yes - 41%, No - 48%, Undecided - 11%.

Thoughts, folks? h, please edumicate me!!

Will do a longer post later.

The proposal is as minimalist as it comes. It has no powers other than to provide the Parliament with advice. Writing it into the constitution is sensible as it prevents the body being junked on a whim by whichever government is in power.

One quibble is the gerrymander representation of remote communities. That gets the goat of urban and regional folk.

The mob I’m working with seem mainly in favour. Those critical of the proposal see it as tokenism.

The main concern is how the debate is conducted in the town. They are wary about a happily small number of local right wing nut jobs getting excited. It is a bit of a microcosm of how Oz may deal with it. The line is to educate, stick to the facts and stay calm.

I remember the 67 Referndum quite clearly and the manner of its conduct was positive. The hope is that this Referendum will be positively remembered in 50 years for the manner of the debate and the result.

It should be easy to sell. If the product were packaged clearly, it would fly off the shelf. The marketing has been terrible.

so sick of it. the whole thing, the bickering, the lies, the waste of money etc.

It's a sound concept ...

I will vote Yes 

It will lose through pinko ineptitude in selling it and misjudging the racism and mistrust of how government dollars are spent on the indigenous  

The rwnj's will sell the no side just by claiming they arent racist

We know from experience what a shitshow referendums typically are. People don’t know what they’re voting for, politicians don’t know what they’re actually going to do if they win, sometimes they’re still clueless years later!

lardbucket wrote:It should be easy to sell. If the product were packaged clearly, it would fly off the shelf. The marketing has been terrible.

And it continues to be so.

Albo has gone the route of "trust me, I know what I'm talking about" without a moot hair of detail as to what the Voice actually means from a legal perspective.

This smacks of the Vulture's drive to get the NDIS in place. She succeeded and now we have a 100 Billion dollars per year rip-off fest that has no chance of being properly funding, leaving Aus in an irretrievable financial hole.

It's just SO Labor. Quite a noble idea, but with completely half-arsed research and development and put together on the back of an envelope, which will lead (if it gets up - which is highly unlikely) to a blight on the Aus economy.

And, if unsuccessful (likely), we'll be left with the legacy that Aus is seen as a racist country because we didn't support this thrown-together feel-good-policy-palaver.

As the Yes vote polling continues to slide, we now have a date for the Referendum. Saturday 14 October.

great, only 6more weeks of this claptrap to go

The Yes side continues to shit in their own nest, this time with Indigenous activist Prof. Marcia Langton saying "Every time the No cases raise their arguments, if you start pulling it apart you get down to base racism – I'm sorry to say that's where it lands – or sheer stupidity".

She claims she has been quoted out of context but once those words hit the press, she put another nail in the Yes side of the Referendum.

And she reckons the No side suffers from "sheer stupidity"?

how much money are we wasting on this? $400m?

Indeed Nath. A very expensive legacy Albo foolishly tried to leave.

If it gets up, how long before it is disbanded, like the NACC, NAC, ATSIC and the other one I’ve forgotten?

lardbucket wrote:If it gets up, how long before it is disbanded, like the NACC, NAC, ATSIC and the other one I’ve forgotten?

If it doesn't get up, how long before Albo is disbanded?

He’s safe for a few years yet.

skully wrote:The Yes side continues to shit in their own nest, this time with Indigenous activist Prof. Marcia Langton saying "Every time the No cases raise their arguments, if you start pulling it apart you get down to base racism – I'm sorry to say that's where it lands – or sheer stupidity".

She claims she has been quoted out of context but once those words hit the press, she put another nail in the Yes side of the Referendum.

And she reckons the No side suffers from "sheer stupidity"?

She's not wrong. Can't tell you how many people I've argued with on Twitter about The Voice being Apartheid.

embee wrote:It's a sound concept ...

I will vote Yes 

It will lose through pinko ineptitude in selling it and misjudging the racism and mistrust of how government dollars are spent on the indigenous  

The rwnj's will sell the no side just by claiming they arent racist

I can't see any Referendum getting up in Australia ever again. Either side can lie with impunity and so there will always be enough doubt to scare people off.

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

or we just move on and "do better" regardless of the result...

lardbucket wrote:He’s safe for a few years yet.

unless he gets rolled internally?

Nath wrote:

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

or we just move on and "do better" regardless of the result...

What in the past history of Australia leads you to believe we can otherwise do better?

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

Welcome back, MrK, we've missed you.

On the topic, come on now, you have to at least admit what a shithouse job Albo and Co have done on selling this thing?

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

or we just move on and "do better" regardless of the result...

What in the past history of Australia leads you to believe we can otherwise do better?

it's "the vibe." we're f'd regardless.

Nath wrote:

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:

JGK wrote:

Nath wrote:how much money are we wasting on this?  $400m?

All the more reason to Vote Yes and move on.

or we just move on and "do better" regardless of the result...

What in the past history of Australia leads you to believe we can otherwise do better?

it's "the vibe."  we're f'd regardless.

So Vote Yes and at least we can move on.