Re: Very Disgusting - Austrian man fathers baby with daughter.

by tac Fri 02 May 2008, 03:49

PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

by embee Fri 02 May 2008, 04:00

Batman wrote:
skully wrote:See Vikas, that wasn't so hard was it. Even Anni can master it.

And here I was attempting to keep all of society's scum caged in one thread. Ah well.

You did that here

by G.Wood Fri 02 May 2008, 04:03

tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Aye, unsporting use of substitute fielders and careless placement of a cricket ball for two

by skully Fri 02 May 2008, 04:40

furriner wrote:
skully wrote:Did anyone catch the speech in English by the lead Austrian investigator. Farkin hell, it sounded just like Hitler (or the classic take-offs of Gistapo commanders)!!!!!

Did he also prance about, right arm raised high, frothing at the mouth and breaking wind?

Erm, I said "sounded like" furry, not "looked like". Wink

by skully Fri 02 May 2008, 04:42

G.Wood wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Aye, unsporting use of substitute fielders and careless placement of a cricket ball for two

Not to mention that heinous jelly bean crime.

by tac Fri 02 May 2008, 05:09

skully wrote:
G.Wood wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Aye, unsporting use of substitute fielders and careless placement of a cricket ball for two
Not to mention that heinous jelly bean crime.

And Punter's "catch" . . . and Pup's catch . . .

by G.Wood Fri 02 May 2008, 05:17

tac wrote:
skully wrote:
G.Wood wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Aye, unsporting use of substitute fielders and careless placement of a cricket ball for two
Not to mention that heinous jelly bean crime.

And Punter's "catch" . . . and Pup's catch . . .

Turn it up, they were like impregnation of Mary in comparison

by tac Fri 02 May 2008, 06:58

G.Wood wrote:
tac wrote:
skully wrote:
G.Wood wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Aye, unsporting use of substitute fielders and careless placement of a cricket ball for two
Not to mention that heinous jelly bean crime.

And Punter's "catch" . . . and Pup's catch . . .

Turn it up, they were like impregnation of Mary in comparison

Sorry, I meant the reaction to those events . . .

by mynah Fri 02 May 2008, 09:39

Even if ignoring acts of war, genocide, terrorism and even bad umpiring, there have been worse crimes.

by doctorspin Fri 02 May 2008, 12:50

From my perspective as a forensic shrink, it is a pretty horrendous crime and is extreme. But sadly it is merely an etreme version of a more common practice. I have seen many men who treat their daughters and family (including grandchildren) in a similar fashion; as their possession; father children with them and turn up at their houses years later when they are adult and rape them as they see this is their perogative.

Typically, I can think of many of their ilk who terrify their spouse. They use violence, sometimes extreme as a means of controlling all women around them and they are also well practiced at controlling men with sinister threats.

I have little doubt that the wife in this case knew full well what was going on, but was too threatened to say anything. She may well have feared for her life. (One woman a week is killed by their partner in the UK) There are other reasons why such women collude, a process very similar to brainwashing. Also, some are so relieved that they are not being subjected to as much violent physical and sexual violence.

So whilst this crime is truly horrific, don't think it is unique in terms of the overall process, thinking and attitudes held by the man.

That said, these men are like a different species when meeting them. They do not seem to see any error in their ways. It is quite extraordinary when meeting them.

At the risk of being provocative (which I don't mean to be) I am not sure the crime can be considered worse than say "honour killings" In fact some of the same processes are going on in terms of women (and sometimes the young men) being seen as less than individuals in their own right, as merely extensions of the family and "owned" to the extent that some in the family have the right to take the life of another family member.

All of these crimes are horrific and utterly indefensible.

by noelene Fri 02 May 2008, 13:29

Or worse than this?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AFGHAN_PUNISH_THE_VICTIM?SITE=AZTUC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Sickening.

by PlanetPakistan Fri 02 May 2008, 17:36

tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:
tac wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:Quite simple the most disgusting crime of this decade.

Nonsense . . . absolute nonsense . . .
why?

Have a think about some of the terrible things that have happened in the last 8 years . . . .

Ok may be i exaggerated but it is still one of the worst!

How can a human being be THAT cruel? I also find it very hard to believe that this guy's wife did NOT know what was going on in the basement for almost 2 and a half decades.

by filosofee Fri 02 May 2008, 21:37

doctorspin wrote:From my perspective as a forensic shrink, it is a pretty horrendous crime and is extreme. But sadly it is merely an etreme version of a more common practice. I have seen many men who treat their daughters and family (including grandchildren) in a similar fashion; as their possession; father children with them and turn up at their houses years later when they are adult and rape them as they see this is their perogative.

Typically, I can think of many of their ilk who terrify their spouse. They use violence, sometimes extreme as a means of controlling all women around them and they are also well practiced at controlling men with sinister threats.

I have little doubt that the wife in this case knew full well what was going on, but was too threatened to say anything. She may well have feared for her life. (One woman a week is killed by their partner in the UK) There are other reasons why such women collude, a process very similar to brainwashing. Also, some are so relieved that they are not being subjected to as much violent physical and sexual violence.

So whilst this crime is truly horrific, don't think it is unique in terms of the overall process, thinking and attitudes held by the man.

That said, these men are like a different species when meeting them. They do not seem to see any error in their ways. It is quite extraordinary when meeting them.

[b]At the risk of being provocative (which I don't mean to be) I am not sure the crime can be considered worse than say "honour killings" [b]In fact some of the same processes are going on in terms of women (and sometimes the young men) being seen as less than individuals in their own right, as merely extensions of the family and "owned" to the extent that some in the family have the right to take the life of another family member.

All of these crimes are horrific and utterly indefensible.

I don't think you're being provocative in your analogy with '(dis)honourable killings' - they too, are all about keeping women subjugated or punished-by-death. The father in this horror story apparently saw no wrong in his actions, telling the police he 'cared well' for his captives and saved his daughter from drugs. Unbelievable.

by lardbucket Fri 02 May 2008, 22:01

Why do we find them so hard to understand, why do they not understand the force of our perplexity and condemnation? They're called psychopaths for a reason ... whatever the nationality of the rock they live beneath. FITH syndrome.

by filosofee Sat 03 May 2008, 15:07

lardbucket wrote:Why do we find them so hard to understand, why do they not understand the force of our perplexity and condemnation? They're called psychopaths for a reason ... whatever the nationality of the rock they live beneath. FITH syndrome.

Don't know LB, I surely don't want to get my head around understanding such a cruel mind:

According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, Elisabeth Fritzl's father Josef repeatedly raped her in front of the children they had together.

For the first nine years she was held captive by her father, Austrian kidnapping victim Elisabeth Fritzl was confined to a single room in the basement, according to information obtained by SPIEGEL. From 1984 to 1993, her father held her captive in the room. Only afterwards did he start to expand the cellar with additional rooms.

Elisabeth Fritzl has said that her years in the cellar began when her father locked her in the basement after he asked her to help him carry a door downstairs. For the first two days, he handcuffed her to a post and for the next six to nine months, he put her on a leash that kept her captive but allowed her to go to the toilet.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,551246,00.html

Can she forgive the world for forgetting about her? If it was believed that she was caught up in some cult, why did her mother, siblings, relatives and friends not want to find out if she were being treated well? What must Elizabeth think or is she too broken to care? So sad.

by PlanetPakistan Sat 03 May 2008, 21:05

filosofee wrote:
doctorspin wrote:From my perspective as a forensic shrink, it is a pretty horrendous crime and is extreme. But sadly it is merely an etreme version of a more common practice. I have seen many men who treat their daughters and family (including grandchildren) in a similar fashion; as their possession; father children with them and turn up at their houses years later when they are adult and rape them as they see this is their perogative.

Typically, I can think of many of their ilk who terrify their spouse. They use violence, sometimes extreme as a means of controlling all women around them and they are also well practiced at controlling men with sinister threats.

I have little doubt that the wife in this case knew full well what was going on, but was too threatened to say anything. She may well have feared for her life. (One woman a week is killed by their partner in the UK) There are other reasons why such women collude, a process very similar to brainwashing. Also, some are so relieved that they are not being subjected to as much violent physical and sexual violence.

So whilst this crime is truly horrific, don't think it is unique in terms of the overall process, thinking and attitudes held by the man.

That said, these men are like a different species when meeting them. They do not seem to see any error in their ways. It is quite extraordinary when meeting them.

[b]At the risk of being provocative (which I don't mean to be) I am not sure the crime can be considered worse than say "honour killings" [b]In fact some of the same processes are going on in terms of women (and sometimes the young men) being seen as less than individuals in their own right, as merely extensions of the family and "owned" to the extent that some in the family have the right to take the life of another family member.

All of these crimes are horrific and utterly indefensible.

I don't think you're being provocative in your analogy with '(dis)honourable killings' - they too, are all about keeping women subjugated or punished-by-death. The father in this horror story apparently saw no wrong in his actions, telling the police he 'cared well' for his captives and saved his daughter from drugs. Unbelievable.

This crime was far worse than honor killings.

by doctorspin Sat 03 May 2008, 23:25

PlanetPakistan wrote:
filosofee wrote:
doctorspin wrote:From my perspective as a forensic shrink, it is a pretty horrendous crime and is extreme. But sadly it is merely an etreme version of a more common practice. I have seen many men who treat their daughters and family (including grandchildren) in a similar fashion; as their possession; father children with them and turn up at their houses years later when they are adult and rape them as they see this is their perogative.

Typically, I can think of many of their ilk who terrify their spouse. They use violence, sometimes extreme as a means of controlling all women around them and they are also well practiced at controlling men with sinister threats.

I have little doubt that the wife in this case knew full well what was going on, but was too threatened to say anything. She may well have feared for her life. (One woman a week is killed by their partner in the UK) There are other reasons why such women collude, a process very similar to brainwashing. Also, some are so relieved that they are not being subjected to as much violent physical and sexual violence.

So whilst this crime is truly horrific, don't think it is unique in terms of the overall process, thinking and attitudes held by the man.

That said, these men are like a different species when meeting them. They do not seem to see any error in their ways. It is quite extraordinary when meeting them.

[b]At the risk of being provocative (which I don't mean to be) I am not sure the crime can be considered worse than say "honour killings" [b]In fact some of the same processes are going on in terms of women (and sometimes the young men) being seen as less than individuals in their own right, as merely extensions of the family and "owned" to the extent that some in the family have the right to take the life of another family member.

All of these crimes are horrific and utterly indefensible.

I don't think you're being provocative in your analogy with '(dis)honourable killings' - they too, are all about keeping women subjugated or punished-by-death. The father in this horror story apparently saw no wrong in his actions, telling the police he 'cared well' for his captives and saved his daughter from drugs. Unbelievable.

This crime was far worse than honor killings.

Well that has to be a matter of opinion to which everyone is entitled. I have laid out my reasons why I think they are roughly equivalent (and I repeat, both are horrific and indefensible.) I am coming from a point of view which is sadly reasonably informed re. the Austrian case and as I have said, the processes going on in that case are identical to scenarios that are occurring right now in many abodes. It happened to be extreme, but from my point of view, that is principally to do with circumstances (including the nature of the victims and how they and others responded to Fritzl.) There are many others who given similar circumstances would do the same and I have met and assessed them. Some kill their victims for pleasure.

It is all so horrific that in a way to try and rank them risks trivialising them although the initial comment is usually a reasonable hyperbolic statement conveying the horror most feel rather than it being a literal statement...I think and presume.

by filosofee Sat 03 May 2008, 23:42

Men attracted to weak women and then those women ignoring their instincts, too weak to do anything about them, or plain colluders (in the case of dishonour killings) leads to catastrophe for offspring.

Wouldn't wish a weak mother on any child.

by mynah Sat 03 May 2008, 23:48

This crime was far worse than honor killings.

What are "honour killings", and how do you justify them? Would me killing my husband or boyfriend because I caught him kissing another woman be more justified than the crime of this man who locked up his daughter and abused her for decades?

by filosofee Sat 03 May 2008, 23:54

mynah wrote:
This crime was far worse than honor killings.

What are "honour killings", and how do you justify them? Would me killing my husband or boyfriend because I caught him kissing another woman be more justified than the crime of this man who locked up his daughter and abused her for decades?

Exactly Mynah. There's no other reason for dishonourable murders of female family members than loss of control over them. If it was truly about 'honour of the family' then how is it that male members' pre-marital or post-marital sexual dalliances are overlooked?

by PearlJ Sun 04 May 2008, 00:13

PlanetPakistan wrote:

This crime was far worse than honor killings.

Why do you need to rank the severity of the crime? It's not a competition. They are all terrible.

by tac Sun 04 May 2008, 00:35

PearlJ wrote:
PlanetPakistan wrote:

This crime was far worse than honor killings.

Why do you need to rank they severity of the crime? It's not a competition. They are all terrible.

Indeed . . . it's like when Jews try to cliam some monopoly on suffering because of the holocaust. All the sorrow and pain in the world can be felt for one death, in one atrocious action. There's no equation for measuring pain whereby 5 deaths is 5 times more tragic than 1 . . .

by Lara Lara Laughs Sun 04 May 2008, 00:47

The point fcxx is making is related to the prolonged suffering of the Austrian woman in comparison to the relatively swift death of women killed for "honour".

by filosofee Mon 05 May 2008, 10:51

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The point fcxx is making is related to the prolonged suffering of the Austrian woman in comparison to the relatively swift death of women killed for "honour".

Sorry Lara "relatively swift death" is not the case in a lot of dishonourable killings; the girls are controlled, bullied, tortured for years before the are killed. In any case their's no point comparing, perpetrators are cruel beyond belief.

by *Buckaroo* Mon 05 May 2008, 10:55

filosofee wrote:
Lara Lara Laughs wrote:The point fcxx is making is related to the prolonged suffering of the Austrian woman in comparison to the relatively swift death of women killed for "honour".

Sorry Lara "relatively swift death" is not the case in a lot of dishonourable killings; the girls are controlled, bullied, tortured for years before the are killed. In any case their's no point comparing, perpetrators are cruel beyond belief.

but this is not highlighted in British media .. they will focus their attention to a girl who married a tree, even if the act was symbolic, in deep dark 'caste-ridden' India

by Sponsored content