Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
+3
embee
taipan
Red
7 posters
Page 1 of 1
Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
when it comes to considering allrounders.
Jacques Kallis has stats, but doesn't rate
Jon Anderson
December 09, 2008 12:00am
NO ALLROUNDER in the history of Test cricket, including Sir Garfield Sobers, has statistics that compare with South African Jacques Kallis.
Yet ask cricketers, past and present, where Kallis sits on the list of great allrounders and you won't find the 33-year-old in the top 10.
Kallis has scored 9801 runs in 125 Tests at an average of 55.06 and taken 245 wickets at a highly respectable 30.92.
And while he has scored 30 centuries, he has never made a double hundred.
Those figures stack up very well against Sobers, who made 8032 runs at 57.78 in 93 Tests and took 235 wickets at 34.03.
And Sobers is widely regarded as the game's greatest allrounder.
Why doesn't Kallis receive the recognition his record deserves?
It comes down to how you play the game, according to a couple of Australians who have played with and against some of the world's best allrounders.
In Keith Stackpole's mind, Kallis is a "selfish cricketer".
"You watch him bat and you are left with the feeling he bats for his average," said Stackpole, who scored seven tons in 43 Tests as an opener.
"And you ask yourself, 'Would I have wanted to play with him?'. The answer is no because he plays for himself.
"He doesn't rate against players such as Gary Sobers, Imran Khan, Keith Miller, Adam Gilchrist, Richard Hadlee, Kapil Dev and Ian Botham.
"Of that group, I would have to place Sobers at one, ahead of Imran, Miller, Hadlee and Gilchrist. Imran Khan was a super cricketer.
"And don't forget another South African in Clive Rice, who was hurt more by apartheid than any other great cricketer.
"Tony Greig is another who doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
"To me he was every bit as good as Ian Botham."
Former Test quick Rodney Hogg played against Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Kapil, Malcolm Marshall and Rice and saw Sobers on two West Indian tours of Australia.
"Sobers has to be rated on top but I have enormous respect for Imran, and while Hadlee wasn't as good with the bat, he is clearly the best bowler of those allrounders like Kapil, Botham and Marshall," Hogg said.
"Botham's shocking record against the great West Indies teams counts against him.
"Rice I played against on two tours of South Africa in the mid-'80s and remember him as someone who wanted to kill you with every ball.
"Kallis is a flat-track bully, who dishes it out to the minnows like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe but goes missing against the Australians.
"Sobers played more than half of his Tests against England and Australia, whereas Kallis has picked up around 1000 runs and 40 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. They shouldn't count.
"Kallis is a player at age 33 that we will really target in this Test series. And he is boring to watch as a bowler, just constantly bowling outside off-stump."
Rice made 26,331 first-class runs (48 centuries) at 40.95 and took 930 wickets at 22.49 for Transvaal, Nottinghamshire, Scotland and Natal.
Irrespective of where you rate Kallis, what becomes evident when investigating allrounders is the number of high quality batsmen-bowlers and batsmen-keepers produced in South Africa.
Eddie Barlow, Mark Boucher, Trevor Goddard, Kallis, Denis Lindsay, Brian McMillan, Shaun Pollock, Mike Procter, Rice and John Waite all qualify for the allrounder tag.
All would walk into any Test team today, given the lack of genuine allrounders.
England's Andrew Flintoff is one such player, when fit, and New Zealand's Daniel Vettori has batted well enough in the past five years to be rated an allrounder.
Australia continues to search for a genuine allrounder, a search that has been going on since Miller retired 50 years ago.
Alan Davidson was a great cricketer but more a bowler than batsman, Gary Gilmour showed glimpses of class and there has been nobody since to nail down the spot, although players such as Phil Carlson, Ken Macleay, Trevor Laughlin and Glenn Trimble have been tried.
Steve Waugh was clearly the best, claiming 92 wickets at 37.44 before reducing his bowling output because of back problems.
Jacques Kallis has stats, but doesn't rate
Jon Anderson
December 09, 2008 12:00am
NO ALLROUNDER in the history of Test cricket, including Sir Garfield Sobers, has statistics that compare with South African Jacques Kallis.
Yet ask cricketers, past and present, where Kallis sits on the list of great allrounders and you won't find the 33-year-old in the top 10.
Kallis has scored 9801 runs in 125 Tests at an average of 55.06 and taken 245 wickets at a highly respectable 30.92.
And while he has scored 30 centuries, he has never made a double hundred.
Those figures stack up very well against Sobers, who made 8032 runs at 57.78 in 93 Tests and took 235 wickets at 34.03.
And Sobers is widely regarded as the game's greatest allrounder.
Why doesn't Kallis receive the recognition his record deserves?
It comes down to how you play the game, according to a couple of Australians who have played with and against some of the world's best allrounders.
In Keith Stackpole's mind, Kallis is a "selfish cricketer".
"You watch him bat and you are left with the feeling he bats for his average," said Stackpole, who scored seven tons in 43 Tests as an opener.
"And you ask yourself, 'Would I have wanted to play with him?'. The answer is no because he plays for himself.
"He doesn't rate against players such as Gary Sobers, Imran Khan, Keith Miller, Adam Gilchrist, Richard Hadlee, Kapil Dev and Ian Botham.
"Of that group, I would have to place Sobers at one, ahead of Imran, Miller, Hadlee and Gilchrist. Imran Khan was a super cricketer.
"And don't forget another South African in Clive Rice, who was hurt more by apartheid than any other great cricketer.
"Tony Greig is another who doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
"To me he was every bit as good as Ian Botham."
Former Test quick Rodney Hogg played against Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Kapil, Malcolm Marshall and Rice and saw Sobers on two West Indian tours of Australia.
"Sobers has to be rated on top but I have enormous respect for Imran, and while Hadlee wasn't as good with the bat, he is clearly the best bowler of those allrounders like Kapil, Botham and Marshall," Hogg said.
"Botham's shocking record against the great West Indies teams counts against him.
"Rice I played against on two tours of South Africa in the mid-'80s and remember him as someone who wanted to kill you with every ball.
"Kallis is a flat-track bully, who dishes it out to the minnows like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe but goes missing against the Australians.
"Sobers played more than half of his Tests against England and Australia, whereas Kallis has picked up around 1000 runs and 40 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. They shouldn't count.
"Kallis is a player at age 33 that we will really target in this Test series. And he is boring to watch as a bowler, just constantly bowling outside off-stump."
Rice made 26,331 first-class runs (48 centuries) at 40.95 and took 930 wickets at 22.49 for Transvaal, Nottinghamshire, Scotland and Natal.
Irrespective of where you rate Kallis, what becomes evident when investigating allrounders is the number of high quality batsmen-bowlers and batsmen-keepers produced in South Africa.
Eddie Barlow, Mark Boucher, Trevor Goddard, Kallis, Denis Lindsay, Brian McMillan, Shaun Pollock, Mike Procter, Rice and John Waite all qualify for the allrounder tag.
All would walk into any Test team today, given the lack of genuine allrounders.
England's Andrew Flintoff is one such player, when fit, and New Zealand's Daniel Vettori has batted well enough in the past five years to be rated an allrounder.
Australia continues to search for a genuine allrounder, a search that has been going on since Miller retired 50 years ago.
Alan Davidson was a great cricketer but more a bowler than batsman, Gary Gilmour showed glimpses of class and there has been nobody since to nail down the spot, although players such as Phil Carlson, Ken Macleay, Trevor Laughlin and Glenn Trimble have been tried.
Steve Waugh was clearly the best, claiming 92 wickets at 37.44 before reducing his bowling output because of back problems.
Red- Number of posts : 17109
Reputation : 17
Registration date : 2007-10-28
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
Jebus, I have read some shite in my time.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
Age : 123
Reputation : 115
Registration date : 2007-08-31
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
Ex Ozzie fast bowler in arrogant statement about opposition Shock
embee- Number of posts : 26339
Age : 57
Reputation : 263
Registration date : 2007-09-03
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
I've got a bad feeling that Jackie might bite us on the @rse in the coming series.
skully- Number of posts : 106779
Age : 113
Reputation : 247
Registration date : 2007-08-31
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
skully wrote:I've got a bad feeling that Jackie might bite us on the @rse in the coming series.
Skulls stop over exciting red.
taipan- Number of posts : 48416
Age : 123
Reputation : 115
Registration date : 2007-08-31
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
Flat tracks?skully wrote:I've got a bad feeling that Jackie might bite us on the @rse in the coming series.
Invader Zim- Number of posts : 6396
Reputation : 51
Registration date : 2007-09-04
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
Invader Zim wrote:Flat tracks?skully wrote:I've got a bad feeling that Jackie might bite us on the @rse in the coming series.
They wouldn't help his bowling.
Red- Number of posts : 17109
Reputation : 17
Registration date : 2007-10-28
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
I am surprised he hasn't scored a double ton, yet.
Paul Keating- Number of posts : 4663
Reputation : 8
Registration date : 2007-10-25
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
Test matches only go 5 days.Paul Keating wrote:I am surprised he hasn't scored a double ton, yet.
skully- Number of posts : 106779
Age : 113
Reputation : 247
Registration date : 2007-08-31
Flag/Background :
Re: Kallis has stats but not rated among greats.
skully wrote:Test matches only go 5 days.Paul Keating wrote:I am surprised he hasn't scored a double ton, yet.
tac- Number of posts : 19270
Reputation : 24
Registration date : 2007-08-31
Flag/Background :
Similar topics
» most over rated bowlers with mascara
» Nice article on an under-rated cricketer . . .
» Test cricket 'greats'
» ashes dangermen as rated by opposition fans
» All Time Greats Top 10 batsmen of all teams?
» Nice article on an under-rated cricketer . . .
» Test cricket 'greats'
» ashes dangermen as rated by opposition fans
» All Time Greats Top 10 batsmen of all teams?
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Today at 13:28 by lardbucket
» Alan Jones gets his England cap... and #700 approaches
Today at 08:10 by skully
» Celebrity Death List MMXXIV/The Death Thread 2024
Today at 08:02 by skully
» Australian Domestic Season 2024/25
Today at 04:13 by Nath
» Upcoming Test Cricket
Yesterday at 23:14 by skully
» Graeme Swann: Great All-Rounder
Yesterday at 20:53 by Norfolk Ian Goode
» Current International One Day Cricket
Yesterday at 10:42 by skully
» International Rugby Union Thread
Sun 17 Nov 2024, 22:37 by Norfolk Ian Goode
» Article on Pant's road to recovery from near fatal car crash
Sun 17 Nov 2024, 02:29 by Red