Current English underachievement XI

This would be an XI made up of current county players who were touted as future English players at under 19 level, but never went on to actually play for England (yet). How about-

Stephen Peters
Bilal Shafayat
Ben Smith
Matt Walker(c)
David Sales
Robin Martin Jenkins
Mark Wallace+
Kyle Hogg
Tom Smith
David Stiff
Garry Keedy


Any of those guys still a chance to play for England? Perhaps Tom Smith and David Stiff still have an outside chance. Kyle Hogg is medium paced gash nowdays, isn't he? And his batting hasn't kicked on either. Shafayat always looks a pretty good player when I see him, and I remember him being touted as 'England's Tendulkar' about 8 years ago, but his progress has completely stalled.

Just goes to show that for every bright young thing that makes it, there are about 10 who don't.

Henry wrote:This would be an XI made up of current county players who were touted as future English players at under 19 level, but never went on to actually play for England (yet). How about-

Stephen Peters
Bilal Shafayat
Ben Smith
Matt Walker(c)
David Sales
Robin Martin Jenkins
Mark Wallace+
Kyle Hogg
Tom Smith
David Stiff
Garry Keedy


Any of those guys still a chance to play for England? Perhaps Tom Smith and David Stiff still have an outside chance. Kyle Hogg is medium paced gash nowdays, isn't he? And his batting hasn't kicked on either. Shafayat always looks a pretty good player when I see him, and I remember him being touted as 'England's Tendulkar' about 8 years ago, but his progress has completely stalled.

Just goes to show that for every bright young thing that makes it, there are about 10 who don't.

The problem is that they were not saffies.

Stiff? TAYPOC

I'd say none of them to be realistic. Tom Smith has a chance if he found a few yards of pace and continued his batting development.

Still waiting for Hogg to 'fill out'

Stiff is 6'8 and bowls mid 80's. He's not the worst. Slowly finding his way back after injury.

Mark Wallace? I'm surprised he even gets into this XI. :\

Wallace was touted as a potential England player when he was just 16 years old, wasn't he?

Aye, but about 6 months ago, I touted him for something more, and he's not exactly set the world alight.


I'm starting to believe he's quite far down the list of possible Keeper-batsmen in England.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Aye, but about 6 months ago, I touted him for something more,

I am glad Henry didn't say this.

Henry tooted. I touted. Difference.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Henry tooted. I touted. Difference.

So you are touting for business as well?

DJ_Smerk wrote:Aye, but about 6 months ago, I touted him for something more, and he's not exactly set the world alight.


I'm starting to believe he's quite far down the list of possible Keeper-batsmen in England.

Well, he's behind at least Davies, Foster, Ambrose, Kieswetter (when he qualifies), and probably Andy Hodd, who is making a good impression down at Sussex in Matt Prior's absence.

Wallace might make a T20 squad...but unfortunately, that'll be where it ends.


Tom Maynard, James Harris, William Bragg and Gareth Rees are the one's to keep an eye on from Glamorgan.

DJ_Smerk wrote:Wallace might make a T20 squad...but unfortunately, that'll be where it ends.


Tom Maynard, James Harris, William Bragg and Gareth Rees are the one's to keep an eye on from Glamorgan.

Gareth 'lower strike rate than Joe Sayers' Rees?

Stephen Peters made a superb century against the likes of Croft and Harris recently.


This must raise his profile somewhat.

English underacheivers. Almost a tautology in cricket terms.

Cook, Bell, Bopara, Harmison, Flintoff, Panesar - there's six.

I would say Luke Wright, but I can't even bring myself to put the word "achiever" near his name.

ten years after wrote:English underacheivers. Almost a tautology in cricket terms.

Cook, Bell, Bopara, Harmison, Flintoff, Panesar - there's six.

Although it's not like their test stats are that much different to their first class stats as was the case with Hick, Ramps, and to a certain extent Caddick.

Maybe the guys you mentioned have actually so far achieved as much as they are capable of? Granted, Flintoff underachieved because of injury rather than technical or mental problems.

Bell?

I don't think you can make a side of players who haven't represented England that is actually very good. At the same time I don't think you can include players who have, on the face of it, had decent international careers - like Bell, Harmison, Panesar, etc. You'd be looking more at players like Rob Key, Ian Blackwell, Samit Patel, who have had a few outings but been total fatties. David Sales has sort of underachieved but not through any fault of his own. I, being a Nottinghamshire guy, really rate Mark Wagh as a number 3 too but he's an airy, flighty player at the crease and has underachieved as a cricketer.

Samit Patel is just too big. It's not like he's done anything wrong elsewhere. Just enjoys burgers.

Henry wrote:

ten years after wrote:English underacheivers. Almost a tautology in cricket terms.

Cook, Bell, Bopara, Harmison, Flintoff, Panesar - there's six.

Although it's not like their test stats are that much different to their first class stats as was the case with Hick, Ramps, and to a certain extent Caddick.

Maybe the guys you mentioned have actually so far achieved as much as they are capable of? Granted, Flintoff underachieved because of injury rather than technical or mental problems.

Maybe. The list of England players since 1970 who appeared to have the goods and then delivered something less is extremely long. Even Botham and Gower were significant underacheivers statistically.

Against that we have Stewart and Collingwood (maybe Tufnell) as the complete list of over-acheivers.

Against that we have Stewart and Collingwood (maybe Tufnell) as the complete list of over-acheivers

Statistically Trescothick and Vaughan were overachievers.

Vaughan was a huge talent who underacheived dramatically.

Trescothick probably achieved about equal to his talent. Thorpe also. Even that is rare among England cricketers in recent decades.

I think anyone whose Test record is better than their overall FC record can reasonably claim to have overachieved, or at least made the most of their ability. So on the batting front that includes Strauss at this stage as well as Trescothick and Vaughan. Thorpe and Stewart ended up with similar FC and Test averages, though Stewart's would surely have been better without the keeping/captaincy/batting everywhere in the top seven.

IMHO, the biggest underachiever in the last 30 odd years must be Chris Lewis.

As an up-and coming player, many commentators said he had enormous talent.

Bit like Gazza in the footie - the world at his feet, and threw it away by having a completely wank attitude.