Re: Iggy Pop upsets 2 subis

by doctorspin Tue 23 Oct 2007, 17:37

Also, it is interesting to note, that in the 60s, coloured was a term used for Black people, but then during the 70s to date, the term coloured became a big no-no as Black people rejected it and at best saw its use as arising from ignorance. Not sure what that was about entirely, but I think it was in part due to rising Black pride and a desire to embrace being black and thus reject a term that smacked of being a euphemism.

This applies to UK and USA. I imagine it is different in SA where the terms also had official meanings for the purpose of catagorising and segregating.

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 18:03

doctorspin wrote:Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

It is only personal opinion and I'm not particularly a sandal-wearing PC whitey but I see it as just as ignorant. As you've mentioned, they're not necessarily of Pakistani origin - for instance I heard some meathead call 'Bangla Bazaar' the 'P***-Shop'. I mean, if you're not being an ignorant d!ck-sucker there what are you being?

The happy-clappy connotation of the word is as bad as the hate-filled bile that many a scumbag used to spit out.

by furriner Tue 23 Oct 2007, 18:36

Same principles as the Symonds/ Monkey business. I'm surprised people are surpised that it can be a derogatory word.

by doctorspin Tue 23 Oct 2007, 18:43

Batfink Begins wrote:
doctorspin wrote:Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

It is only personal opinion and I'm not particularly a sandal-wearing PC whitey but I see it as just as ignorant. As you've mentioned, they're not necessarily of Pakistani origin - for instance I heard some meathead call 'Bangla Bazaar' the 'P***-Shop'. I mean, if you're not being an ignorant d!ck-sucker there what are you being?

The happy-clappy connotation of the word is as bad as the hate-filled bile that many a scumbag used to spit out.

I don't disagree with you on the whole. I was partly trying to explain why only 2 complaints were received.

Whilst ignorance in this area is potentially very dangerous, I wouldn't necessarily quite equate it with those who spew hate-filled bile. Maybe someone (preferably NOT Tac or anyone by the Big Dazza nom de plume)) can pop over to PakPassion and ask Filo. bounce

by Geoffrey Trueman Tue 23 Oct 2007, 18:46

doctorspin wrote:It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Funnily enough I heard the words 'paki shop' during an episode of 'Only Fools And Horses' only last week. Used in that context it is not a racist comment, end of. I mean, how can it be a racist comment when half the time the 'paki shop' in question is own by an Indian?

Furthermore, I find the condemnation of Mr Pop by certain posters on this thread quite pathetic. Unaware of all this British PC bollocks Pakistanis living miles away in Australia freely use the word 'Paki' to describe themselves and their fellow countrymen, so how the f**k is an American living on the other side of the Atlantic supposed to know about it's derogatory British meaning?

Why people feel obliged to jump on the nearest soapbox and spout sanctimonious bollocks in the aftermath of something as insignificant as this is beyond my comprehension.

by Brass Monkey Tue 23 Oct 2007, 19:01

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:Funnily enough I heard the words 'paki shop' during an episode of 'Only Fools And Horses' only last week. Used in that context it is not a racist comment, end of. I mean, how can it be a racist comment when half the time the 'paki shop' in question is own by an Indian?

Or a Bangladeshi... or a Sri Lankan... but isn't that the point? I don't remember bringing the word racist into it - point me to it if I have - but the whole 'all the same' thing is ignorant IMO.

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:
Furthermore, I find the condemnation of Mr Pop by certain posters on this thread quite pathetic. Unaware of all this British PC bollocks Pakistanis living miles away in Australia freely use the word 'Paki' to describe themselves and their fellow countrymen, so how the f**k is an American living on the other side of the Atlantic supposed to know about it's derogatory British meaning?

Good point, he may not have known. However, most people pointed to the fact he was sh!thouse - so if by certain posters you mean me, then as I've said I personally would've been mildly offended but wouldn't have complained so... what condemnation you're on about I don't know.

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:

Why people feel obliged to jump on the nearest soapbox and spout sanctimonious bollocks in the aftermath of something as insignificant as this is beyond my comprehension.

Well, la-di-da Geoffrey. We started discussing it, I don't see it being sanctimonious myself. Don't have a hernia sweetheart, it's what happens on boards such as this.

by Ash Tue 23 Oct 2007, 19:04

doctorspin wrote:
tac wrote:TBH, while I understand it is offensive in Britain, I still don't get it. Aussie, Saffie, Kiwi, Subi . . . ???
It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

You f***ing P*** would be a common term.

I don't know if at the very beginning the N word was a relatively neutral word, derived from Negro, meaning black; but now both terms, because of the correct association with appalling abuse are now considered abusive, racist terms (although I think Negro may still be used properly in anthropology to differentiate races, but I may be wrong on that.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Strangely though, the term P***-Shop is not necessarily as offensive (although that is arguable.) The term may be used in a more ironic way to refer to the plethora of corner shops, owned by Asians (many of whom are not Pakistani) who worked every hour God sends and on which almost everyone in the country has relied on at some time (munchies at midnight anyone?)

The Asian band Corner-Shop called themselves that in a similarly ironic manner I would say.

The fact that the term refers to a phenomenon, rather than an individual, and has been used ironically in the UK may account for the paltry number of complaints. I would not be surprised if the 2 complaints were from sandal-wearing PC whiteys rather than Asians.

The use of the term by the drug-addled brain of Iggy smacks of ignorance. It would be best not to use the term.

It would be interesting to hear the view of any British Asian on this board, but i am not sure we have any. If I am wrong on what I have said I would happily stand corrected.

nah, id say youve pretty much hit the nail on the head

by doctorspin Tue 23 Oct 2007, 19:20

Ash wrote:nah, id say youve pretty much hit the nail on the head

First time for everything I suppose!

Sorry, I forgot you Ash, as being a potential source of a balanced "subi" view. And you don't see red when the word Agar**r is used either.

by furriner Tue 23 Oct 2007, 19:22

Geoffrey Trueman wrote:
doctorspin wrote:It is because in the UK, during the dreadful 70s, the word P***, which could be considered a shortened descriptive term, was used as a word of hate (and I am not over-emphasising by using the word hate.)

The use of the word P*** in the UK will grate horribly on any right-minded individual because of the fact it has had a deeply racist use.

Funnily enough I heard the words 'paki shop' during an episode of 'Only Fools And Horses' only last week. Used in that context it is not a racist comment, end of. I mean, how can it be a racist comment when half the time the 'paki shop' in question is own by an Indian?

Furthermore, I find the condemnation of Mr Pop by certain posters on this thread quite pathetic. Unaware of all this British PC bollocks Pakistanis living miles away in Australia freely use the word 'Paki' to describe themselves and their fellow countrymen, so how the f**k is an American living on the other side of the Atlantic supposed to know about it's derogatory British meaning?

Why people feel obliged to jump on the nearest soapbox and spout sanctimonious bollocks in the aftermath of something as insignificant as this is beyond my comprehension.

First, black Americans living in America often address themselves and each other as n*****s. Is it alright if an Indian living in India, or a Caucasian living in Russia also calls them that?

Second, if the monkey/Symonds business was racist, which I have said it was the second time it happened, so is this.

by Geoffrey Trueman Tue 23 Oct 2007, 19:45

Batfink Begins wrote:Well, la-di-da Geoffrey. We started discussing it, I don't see it being sanctimonious myself. Don't have a hernia sweetheart, it's what happens on boards such as this.

What do you expect from a Stooges fan? Throw in the fact I'm trying to rustle up churri and rice before tonights CL games kick-off and it's no wonder I'm a bit tetchy.

Btw, do yourself a favour and tune in to the game at Ibrox, whatever the result it's sure to be a cracker.

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