Matt Prior

He really is shit, isn't he?

No heart shown by him today.

His keeping's fine and dandy though.

To be realistic if he can average 30-ish over a long period he'll be doing fine, he just won't be a top six batsman. Sh*ts on Read & Foster when it comes to scoring international runs. Kieswetter may be an alternative in time although at the moment he's a ropey keeper who scores bundles of runs at Taunton.

It seemed a little soft-c0cked incorporated this morning in Jo'burg.

Eric Air Emu wrote:His keeping's fine and dandy though.

To be realistic if he can average 30-ish over a long period he'll be doing fine, he just won't be a top six batsman. Sh*ts on Read & Foster when it comes to scoring international runs. Kieswetter may be an alternative in time although at the moment he's a ropey keeper who scores bundles of runs at Taunton.

All Prior does is batter the West Indies, so Kieswetter probably isn't much different.

Chivalry Augustus wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:His keeping's fine and dandy though.

To be realistic if he can average 30-ish over a long period he'll be doing fine, he just won't be a top six batsman. Sh*ts on Read & Foster when it comes to scoring international runs. Kieswetter may be an alternative in time although at the moment he's a ropey keeper who scores bundles of runs at Taunton.

All Prior does is batter the West Indies, so Kieswetter probably isn't much different.

Prior was our second highest run scorer against Australia.

He's admitted he hasn't felt in particularly good batting form this series. Why put different standards on him than are on Strauss, Pietersen and Trott? He's not alone in having a moderate series with the bat, and has kept well. One more successful discipline than any of those three.

I have no idea what Prior did, what happened?

Looking like the new Geraint Jones - started out as a decent batsman but poor keeper, has turned into a decent keeper who isn't pulling his weight with the bat. Why can't we find someone who can do both jobs well at the same time?

beamer wrote:Looking like the new Geraint Jones - started out as a decent batsman but poor keeper, has turned into a decent keeper who isn't pulling his weight with the bat. Why can't we find someone who can do both jobs well at the same time?

Because we aren't women?

Rubbish. One moderate series with the bat in a team where loads of players have iffy stats this tour and you start tearing him to shreds? What bollocks.

Let's get rid of that useless twat Pietersen, what did he do? Trott? Yep, throw him out too, his Test record is poor. Strauss? Useless, what was it one fifty all series?

When Pietersen smashes 160 against Bangladesh, I'm sure we'll forget this series.

I'm also certain that the Aussies, Saffies and Indians will remind us how he's a flat-track minnow bashing son-of-a-gun.

DJ_Smerk wrote:When Pietersen smashes 160 against Bangladesh, I'm sure we'll forget this series.

I'm also certain that the Aussies, Saffies and Indians will remind us how he's a flat-track minnow bashing son-of-a-gun.

But WGAF what they think?

As for Prior, I don't recall him being bashed in this series for his keeping. Also kept well in the Ashes. If he can average close to 30 over his career at 7 he'll be doing the job asked. End of.

Todays effort was pretty softC0ck worthy though....

JKLever wrote:

DJ_Smerk wrote:When Pietersen smashes 160 against Bangladesh, I'm sure we'll forget this series.

I'm also certain that the Aussies, Saffies and Indians will remind us how he's a flat-track minnow bashing son-of-a-gun.

But WGAF what they think?

As for Prior, I don't recall him being bashed in this series for his keeping. Also kept well in the Ashes. If he can average close to 30 over his career at 7 he'll be doing the job asked. End of.

Todays effort was pretty softC0ck worthy though....

I think Geoff Boycott has a point when he says that Prior can really only play one way. He always seems to want to go for his shots and doesn't seem to alter his shot selection.

His way of playing seems to suit the pugnatious lower-order counter attack but doesn't seem to graft on a trick wicket well.

Not that constant aggression did much harm for Adam Gilchrist.

Oh, and i would have thought 35 not 30 should be the minimum aspiration for Prior.

His keeping has improved but he'll never be a natural - we have better keepers who could average 30.

I think there's a certain lack of sympathy for the wicketkeeping profession here. Keeping takes a lot of concentration and mental effort and having to score the runs of a top order batsman as well is a big ask. The likes of Gilchirst, Flower, Sangakarra & Dhoni are freak-ish (and note that Sangakarra's now given up the gloves) and England have no right to expect one see-ing that no English specialist batsman or bowler really achieves such levels of excellence.

The realistic heights to aspire to for Prior are the likes of Boucher (fantastic this series but doesn't average much above 30) and McCullum (ditto with the average). Compared to his English predecessors- Stewart as keeper averaged mid-30s, Russell about 27 and no other pretender has made it past 25. I think Prior's still averaging 40-ish and his keeping has been good for a while. Even in this series he made 2 50s in 4 tests which isn't a bad ratio if you make a few 20s & 30s as well (which he didn't...) . He just had one appauling test with the bat - as did numbers 1,2,3 & 4.

There isn't appreciably better out there and a keeper avergaing 40 and taking most of the chances that come his way is the absolute limit England can ask for.

I love Matt Prior both for his cricketing skills and brilliant mind.

What about his set of gnashers?

Eric Air Emu wrote:I think there's a certain lack of sympathy for the wicketkeeping profession here. Keeping takes a lot of concentration and mental effort and having to score the runs of a top order batsman as well is a big ask. The likes of Gilchirst, Flower, Sangakarra & Dhoni are freak-ish (and note that Sangakarra's now given up the gloves) and England have no right to expect one see-ing that no English specialist batsman or bowler really achieves such levels of excellence.

The realistic heights to aspire to for Prior are the likes of Boucher (fantastic this series but doesn't average much above 30) and McCullum (ditto with the average). Compared to his English predecessors- Stewart as keeper averaged mid-30s, Russell about 27 and no other pretender has made it past 25. I think Prior's still averaging 40-ish and his keeping has been good for a while. Even in this series he made 2 50s in 4 tests which isn't a bad ratio if you make a few 20s & 30s as well (which he didn't...) . He just had one appauling test with the bat - as did numbers 1,2,3 & 4.

There isn't appreciably better out there and a keeper avergaing 40 and taking most of the chances that come his way is the absolute limit England can ask for.

I love Matt Prior both for his cricketing skills and brilliant mind.

Quite right. A wicketkeeper is an allrounder, and just as with all rounders, getting both disciplines successful at the same time is an extremely big ask. Some people seem to view the keeper as first amongst equals amongst the fielders and that's simply not true.

I have an immense amount of admiration for Dhoni managing to do both AND captain a side - that's astonishing. At club level, I'm the new captain this year, and the wicketkeeping is going to go by the by, because I can't do that, open the batting AND captain at the same time - it's just too much.

As you say, for Prior to be good with the gloves (and all agree he has been) and maintain an average somewhere around 40 is a very good result, and one any team in the world would be pleased with.

Having captained and kept wicket (and opened the batting occasionally...I'm like you're shit cr*cketing doppleganger Shoeshine) I've actually found keeping gives you the ultimate view of the bowler- you know exactly what each bowler is doing with ball and how comfortable the batsman is facing them- you just don't get that at mid-off. I think keeper-captains are great ideas- as long as you don't expect them to score runs.

Shoeshine wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:I think there's a certain lack of sympathy for the wicketkeeping profession here. Keeping takes a lot of concentration and mental effort and having to score the runs of a top order batsman as well is a big ask. The likes of Gilchirst, Flower, Sangakarra & Dhoni are freak-ish (and note that Sangakarra's now given up the gloves) and England have no right to expect one see-ing that no English specialist batsman or bowler really achieves such levels of excellence.

The realistic heights to aspire to for Prior are the likes of Boucher (fantastic this series but doesn't average much above 30) and McCullum (ditto with the average). Compared to his English predecessors- Stewart as keeper averaged mid-30s, Russell about 27 and no other pretender has made it past 25. I think Prior's still averaging 40-ish and his keeping has been good for a while. Even in this series he made 2 50s in 4 tests which isn't a bad ratio if you make a few 20s & 30s as well (which he didn't...) . He just had one appauling test with the bat - as did numbers 1,2,3 & 4.

There isn't appreciably better out there and a keeper avergaing 40 and taking most of the chances that come his way is the absolute limit England can ask for.

I love Matt Prior both for his cricketing skills and brilliant mind.

Quite right. A wicketkeeper is an allrounder, and just as with all rounders, getting both disciplines successful at the same time is an extremely big ask. Some people seem to view the keeper as first amongst equals amongst the fielders and that's simply not true.

I have an immense amount of admiration for Dhoni managing to do both AND captain a side - that's astonishing. At club level, I'm the new captain this year, and the wicketkeeping is going to go by the by, because I can't do that, open the batting AND captain at the same time - it's just too much.

As you say, for Prior to be good with the gloves (and all agree he has been) and maintain an average somewhere around 40 is a very good result, and one any team in the world would be pleased with.

32.63 against the Aussies
22.57 against SA

The average is heading south. No big issue at the moment, but alarm bells will start to ring if he has not reversed this trend by the end of the series against Pakistan.

He's also a dab hand with a jelly bean.

Eric Air Emu wrote:Having captained and kept wicket (and opened the batting occasionally...I'm like you're shit cr*cketing doppleganger Shoeshine) I've actually found keeping gives you the ultimate view of the bowler- you know exactly what each bowler is doing with ball and how comfortable the batsman is facing them- you just don't get that at mid-off. I think keeper-captains are great ideas- as long as you don't expect them to score runs.

Then you're a better man than me, because if I captain when I keep I miss so much, because I don't have time to think about things. It's the strategic side I become very poor at, and I find that frustrating, because I know I'm not captaining as well as I could do.

This year (since I'm captain) I'll be dumping the keeping duties I think.

If you compare him to someone like Boucher, yes Boucher only averages 30 but he tends to stick around and make tough runs, he has dug his side out of a hole on numerous occasions. I'd rather have someone like that than someone who can bully the opposition at declaration time but doesn't contribute when the side are struggling. I think Prior just needs to learn to put his natural attacking game to one side when the situation demands it.

I can't remember where he has generally batted for Sussex in FC cricket but I suspect it won't have been as low as 7 too often, and the player in that position needs to learn the key skill of batting with the tail.

You could say that about most of our side, we don't adapt to the condition of the game fast enough.

Eric Air Emu wrote:I think there's a certain lack of sympathy for the wicketkeeping profession here. Keeping takes a lot of concentration and mental effort and having to score the runs of a top order batsman as well is a big ask. The likes of Gilchirst, Flower, Sangakarra & Dhoni are freak-ish (and note that Sangakarra's now given up the gloves) and England have no right to expect one see-ing that no English specialist batsman or bowler really achieves such levels of excellence.

The realistic heights to aspire to for Prior are the likes of Boucher (fantastic this series but doesn't average much above 30) and McCullum (ditto with the average). Compared to his English predecessors- Stewart as keeper averaged mid-30s, Russell about 27 and no other pretender has made it past 25. I think Prior's still averaging 40-ish and his keeping has been good for a while. Even in this series he made 2 50s in 4 tests which isn't a bad ratio if you make a few 20s & 30s as well (which he didn't...) . He just had one appauling test with the bat - as did numbers 1,2,3 & 4.

There isn't appreciably better out there and a keeper avergaing 40 and taking most of the chances that come his way is the absolute limit England can ask for.

I love Matt Prior both for his cricketing skills and brilliant mind.

Incredible stat this one....

Kumar Sangakkara as wicket keeper:
48 matches, 3117 runs, 7x100, 11x50, average = 40.48
Kumar Sangakkara as batsman:
40 matches, 4432 runs, 14x100, 21x50, average = 73.86

To a lesser extent you also have -

Alec Stewart as wicket keeper:
82 matches, 4540 runs, 6x100, 23x50, average = 34.92
Alec Stewart as batsman:
51 matches, 3923 runs, 9x100, 22x50, average = 46.70

Perversely, Andy Flower averaged loads more as a keeper - 54 vs 35 as a batsman - but it is a small sample (only 8 Tests as a batsman) and he was a very sh!t keeper.

Clyde Walcott is another who flourished as a batsman - averaged 40 in 15 Tests as a keeper compared to 64.66 in 29 Tests as a specialist batsman.

JKLever wrote:You could say that about most of our side, we don't adapt to the condition of the game fast enough.

Yeah, we've got a team of one-dimensional batsmen who generally only know one way to play. That's why we're mostly useless at the shorter forms of the game.