Most games without representing your Country

Dan Marsh (son of Rod) is playing in the Franger final today...made his debut back in 1993/94.

He's played 148 First Class and 128 List A games yet has never represented Australia in any form of the game...not even in a second XI.

Is this some sort of record?

No.

Alan Jones...unfortunate name...

At least he got to play in a match that was called a 'Test' at the time it was played.

They should have picked him for the Bangladesh tour.

George Cox

634 games

TAYPOC.

"Alan Jones...unfortunate name..."

Maybe FB's designated duty Welshie could confirm or deny: there were three of them in the Glamorgan team at once at stages during the 70s, including both openers?

Don Shepherd

Les Berry?

It looks as if Jones does hold the record as he played 645 fc games for Glamorgan, Natal, Northern Transvaal and Western Australia between 1957 and 1983 although one of those games was an appearance for an England XI v. Rest of the World XI at Lord's in June 1970 in a series scheduled to take the place of the cancelled South African tour. At the time it was given full Test status but that was subsequently withdrawn although it retains its fc status. It is arguable, therefore, whether he was given representative 'honours' or not.

George Cox, of Sussex, played 634 fc matches between 1895 and 1928 whilst Les Berry, of Leicestershire, played 609 matches between 1924 and 1951 (which includes one appearance for an England XI v. Yorkshire in 1929). Marsh may indeed hold the Australian record for a player who has not achieved Test recognition as Sam Trimble, of Queensland, played 144 fc matches between 1959 and 1976 without gaining a Test cap although he did captain an Australian side (which included future Test players such as Greg Chappell and Terry Jenner) on a tour of New Zealand in 1969-70 which included three representative matches against a virtually full-strength New Zealand side. However I cannot provide a definitive answer.

To correct the above Basil appears to be right as Jones' county colleague, the Glamorgan off-spinner, Don Shepherd played 668 fc matches as well as 73 limited-over matches between 1950 and 1972 without gaining representative honours although he was a member of the MCC side under Tony Lewis which toured Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) in 1969-70 when no full England tour had been scheduled.

Arguably the best Australian never to have represented his country was Bill Alley who played 400 fc matches, although most of them for Somerset, scoring 19612 runs including over 3000 in a season in 1961 at the age of 42. He played three seasons for New South Wales between 1945 and 1948 and, apart from a Commonwealth tour of Pakistan in 1949-50 and a single representative game against Essex in 1953, played no further fc cricket until he qualified for Somerset in 1957 at the age of 38.

He did however umpire in 10 Test Matches and 9 ODIs between 1974 and 1981.

Ken Grieves?

WideWally wrote:Ken Grieves?

Ken Suttle?

Basil wrote:

WideWally wrote:Ken Grieves?

Ken Suttle?

I was referring to Australians with the most FC matches (490).




Emrys Davies & Peter Sainsbury also played more than 600 FC matches.

Yes, Ken Grieves who played alongside Alley in the NSW side for 2 seasons between 1945 and 1947 before emigrating to England and qualifying for Lancashire for which he played for 16 seasons between 1949 and 1964, captaining them in his last 2 seasons. Grieves scored 22454 runs @33.66, a slightly better average than Alley's as well as taking 242 wickets with his leg breaks. He also played in goal for 5 English clubs, including Bolton Wanderers, during the off-season. Although it is probably fair to say that Alley might have played more matches but for the lay-off in his 30s.

Ken Suttle played 612 fc matches for Sussex between 1949 and 1971, Peter Sainsbury 618 matches for Hampshire between 1954 and 1976 and Emrys Davies 621 matches, mainly for Glamorgan, between 1924 and 1954 aklthough Davies, like Alley, umpired in 9 Tests between 1956 and 1959 as well as making 3 appearances for Wales against MCC in 1926 and 1927 and against the South African tourists in 1929, although this match has yet to be granted Test status, sadly.

Although Wally worried me when he mentioned Suttle who I thought had played many more matches the record still appears to belong to Shepherd with 668 fc matches.who also holds the record for the most career wickets by a non-Test player with 2218. The record for runs must be held by Jones with 36049 overtaking John Langridge of Sussex, I believe.

What is it about Glamorgan that encourages both longevity with at least 3 players making over 600 appearances and selectorial indifference? The latter may have something to do with the absence or presence of the M4. I remember in 1969 Glamorgan and Gloucestershire tussled for the County Championship becoming champions and runner-up respectively but no player from either side was included in England's six Test sides that summer.

The wicketkeeping record in terms of appearances must be 'Tonker' Taylor's 572, mainly for Essex, between 1949 and 1973 (although he was the reserve keeper on the England tour to South Africa in 1956-7, I think) although in terms of victims it would be Fred Huish's 1310 (16 more than Taylor) for Kent between 1895 and 1914.

What about David Hunter in terms of victims?

What is it about Glamorgan that encourages both longevity with at least 3 players making over 600 appearances and selectorial indifference? The latter may have something to do with the absence or presence of the M4. I remember in 1969 Glamorgan and Gloucestershire tussled for the County Championship becoming champions and runner-up respectively but no player from either side was included in England's six Test sides that summer.

I wonder the same thing.

It's discrimination against the Welsh.

I thought Hunter had played Test cricket but I had confused him with his brother Joe, his predecessor as Yorkshire 'keeper, who kept in all 5 Tests of Arthur Shrewsbury's tour of Australia in 1884-5. I have been using the stats from the current edition of Playfair Cricket Annual but have noticed these differ slightly from the individual stats given in both Cricinfo and Cricket Archive (which do coincide). This may be due to the fact that the player concerned took some catches in the field or debate as to what constitutes a fc match. However this does not affect the order - Hunter is likely second behind Taylor in terms of matches -552 - but still behind Huish and Taylor in terms of victims - 1263 to Huish's 1311 (using Cricinfo's figures) between 1888 and 1909.

WideWally wrote:It's discrimination against the Welsh.

Although central contracts have made county registration rather academic the last Glamorgan player to appear for England in a Test was Simon Jones (who subsequently moved to Worcestershire) in the 4th Test v. Australia at Trent Bridge on 28 August 2005, an interval of 57 matches. The last Glamorgan player to appear in an ODI was also Jones again against Australia at The Oval on 12 July 2005, an interval of 103 matches (counting the match played today).

However Glamorgan is not the most overlooked county currently. The last Derbyshire player to appear in a Test was Dominic Cork (who has subsequently gone on to play for two other counties) against India at The Oval on 9 September 2002, an interval of 96 matches. He was also the last from that county to appear in an ODI, also against India at Colombo on 22 September 2002, an interval of 171 matches.

Both counties have yet to provide a player for a T20 international.

Allan D wrote: However this does not affect the order - Hunter is likely second behind Taylor in terms of matches -552 - but still behind Huish and Taylor in terms of victims - 1263 to Huish's 1311 (using Cricinfo's figures) between 1888 and 1909.

I was working off the Kaye Book of Cricket Records (1968 compiled by Bill Frindall) which listed Hunter as taking 995 catches & making 372 stumpings. I guess a number of the matches he played have subsequently lost first class status.

.......... or Bill's abacus malfunctioned!

WideWally wrote:

Allan D wrote: However this does not affect the order - Hunter is likely second behind Taylor in terms of matches -552 - but still behind Huish and Taylor in terms of victims - 1263 to Huish's 1311 (using Cricinfo's figures) between 1888 and 1909.

I was working off the Kaye Book of Cricket Records (1968 compiled by Bill Frindall) which listed Hunter as taking 995 catches & making 372 stumpings. I guess a number of the matches he played have subsequently lost first class status.

.......... or Bill's abacus malfunctioned!

Bill was a bit of a one man crusade on the status of certain matched viz. The ROW v Aust tests.