Great sporting mysteries (serious thread)

[PeterCS]

A thread intended to raise baffling sporting riddles. And possibly mull over answers.


Such as:

1. Rugby Union. From kick-offs especially - but also from open play - why don't kickers generally go for greater height?

Even in international rugby, some kick-offs don't even go the required 10 metres. You can see the idea - shorter kicks give your own team a better chance to grab possession, rather than following the more bloody-minded, meatheaded route of hoofing it down the field (even for a 22 metre dropout). But it's a bit feeble if it doesn't even go the 10 metres.

So why don't more kickers go for the full garryowen ("up and under")? You would surely think a kicker worth his salt should regularly be able to get both height and decent length. But all too often, kicks just give away possession. Is there a reason for this?


2. Cricket. What exactly was the point of the sweep off the full-pitched ball on the stumps (from slow bowlers)?

Even in the pre-DRS days, that was a slow bowler's big chance for an LBW.

The idea was presumably a brilliantly simple method to neutralise spin, and frustrate/demoralise the bowler. Well okay - if the ball is "on a length" or preferably well short of it, that makes some sense. And if the slow bowler is a (big) spinner, then possibly so much the better.

But what genius came up with this great panacea against all slow bowling in Asia? Gooch? Flower? Strauss? .... It beggars belief that any international batsman would go out equipped with a monolithic (i.e. imbecilically inflexible) strategy, that is likely to demoralise only the batsman and set his own team on the slide. Especially if the rest of 'em follow the same brilliant strategy.

Anyone have a reason - or know who devised the cunning plan?


3. Football (in England). Why does ever more money seem to create lower standards in the Premier League? (Wait - I think I may know the answer to that one....)


Anyone else have head-scratching questions and/or answers (sensible, or facetious, if you prefer - all grist to the FB millstones).

[PeterCS]

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» Bromsgrove sporting:AN APOLOGY and retratcion:by Fat Ron

Hmmm ....

[Henry]

1. The long, deep kick off can often lead to a net gain, seeing as these days, the opposition is likely to kick the ball straight back, rather than run with the ball from deep in their own half.

2. In the case of England, they pre-meditate the sweep. Ie, when the bowler is at the top of his mark, the batsman is thinking "I'm going to sweep this one." This often leads to embarrassment when the ball is full and straight, or a full toss 2 feet outside off stump that is crying out for a well-placed cover drive. The best players of spin can decide if the sweep is on or not as the ball is coming down at them. Ie Brian Lara.

3. It's all down to TV rights. More money for Pay TV ultimately means more money for the players, regardless of the standard of football. However, after everyone has bitten off what they perceive as their share of the goodies, not much money actually ends up filtering through to player development at grass roots level. France and Spain, to give just two examples, have infinitely better youth systems than England. Support for English football teams has very deep roots, so while most fans would be aware the standard is not improving, they are prepared to overlook this because it is, and always will be 'their team.'

But at the end of the day, the standard of the Premier League compared to other major leagues is not that bad- Thanks to the foreign players on display, for whom clubs pay huge amounts for, instead of investing that money in local player development.

[LeFromage]

Related to 3: where do all the academy players go in the end?

Every Premier League club has to have an academy, and given that academy sides play games against each other, that means they must have an intake of at least eleven players per year - 220 or so young footballers passing through the doors of PL sides annually.

Given that less than one percent make it as professional players, let alone graduate into the first team of a PL club, there must be literally thousands of young men in this country who have been trained up by the "best" coaching Premier League and FA money can buy over the last decade and yet not even developed to the same standard as Emile Heskey.

What a laughably inefficient system. Where are they now? The glue factory?

[Henry]

That old story about there being a regular in every Pub in England who "once had a trial with Spurs" is actually true then.

[PeterCS]

Re: Henry's first response:

1. Well, that's sort of my drift - it only makes sense if the opposition is as meatheaded in its tactics.

But I'm not sure that covers the kick-off. Generally, a "receiving" team just collects a ball kicked a bit too shallow and too long, and says "thank you very much" - the catcher generally has plenty of team mates to support him in that case.

2. Again, that's my point. A thoughtlessly premeditated sweep is a brainless one.

3. I agree. Though to put it more simply, too much of the greater money flows into pockets, rather than into investment - and tends to stimulate greed over dedication to the honing of skills, or commitment to technical improvement (I generalise of course).

This is not to decry the improvement in the quality of burgers and toilets at grounds, though these of course come at a cost to the season ticket holder.

[Yorkie Jill]

To say nothing of the championship side academies. Middlesbrough, probably the only club I know a little about, has a very good academy, producing a lot of its own players and some for, if not premier league sides apart from Adam Johnson and...Jonathan Woodgate and...David Wheater (I had to check if Bolton were still in the prem), for lower leagues, kind of a journeyman academy. But they at least seem to stay in the game. Where do the rest go?

[PeterCS]

Related to 3: where do all the academy players go in the end?

Every Premier League club has to have an academy, and given that academy sides play games against each other, that means they must have an intake of at least eleven players per year - 220 or so young footballers passing through the doors of PL sides annually.

Given that less than one percent make it as professional players, let alone graduate into the first team of a PL club, there must be literally thousands of young men in this country who have been trained up by the "best" coaching Premier League and FA money can buy over the last decade and yet not even developed to the same standard as Emile Heskey.

What a laughably inefficient system. Where are they now? The glue factory?

Forking out their hard-earned JSA on season tickets?

[Henry]

Yeah, at the end of the day, does Abramovich give a f*ck about producing skilled young English players? How about the Glazers? They couldn't give the slightest toss. All they care about is getting a good return on their investments, and winning trophies. Putting a sizeable amount of money into developing a core group of good young local players who may or may not turn out to be good players takes too much time and patience- Not something these billionaires have much appreciation for.

It's mostly up to the smaller clubs, often in lower divisions, to produce good young English footballers these days, before the bigger clubs pay too much for them early on, and instil in that player a lust for money and the good life, which seems to lead to poorer performances.

Let's be honest- Most English players of the last 10 years have peaked at the age of 22.

[LeFromage]

Yeah, at the end of the day, does Abramovich give a f*ck about producing skilled young English players?

In the early days of Chelski, under first Ranieri and then Mourinho, they went mental for the youth, hoovering up the best young players in the country from everyone's academies - most notably Leeds', as they were accused of poaching a few. Chelsea ended up paying £5 million in an out of court settlement for Michael Woods and Tom Taiwo.

Who?

Carlisle's Tom Taiwo, 22, and Micheal Woods (21) who plays on non-contract terms for Yeovil Town.

As far as I can tell, Chelsea's grand plan of the mid 2000s to bring through young players from their academy (and everyone else's) has yielded f*ck all in the way of first team players.

[Yorkie Jill]

Was going to say Jody Morris but he actually played at Chelsea for quite a while.

[Henry]

The 'best' young English players in general still aren't a patch on the best young Spanish, French, German, Brazilian, or even Portuguese players.

The Premier League is such that it only allows room for the English prodigies who can do the business at the age of 16-17, but it shuns forever the decent young players who might lack a bit of natural talent but have a strong head and in a few years could mature into very passable footballers.

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is the latest one- A fine young talent. The sort of player who you look at at the age of 18 and think "wow, in five years this kid could be anything", but unfortunately, it's closer to the truth that he will be labelled an 'underachiever' by then, and go the same was as Jermaine Pennant or Jermaine Jenas.

Theo Walcott is at the crossroads as well. Now is about the time he will ether finally mature and fulfil the "promise" and "potential" he has shown for the last six years, or descend into general mediocrity, get sold to a mid to low-table club, and never really push for higher honours again.

[Gary 111]

To say nothing of the championship side academies. Middlesbrough, probably the only club I know a little about, has a very good academy, producing a lot of its own players and some for, if not premier league sides apart from Adam Johnson and...Jonathan Woodgate and...David Wheater (I had to check if Bolton were still in the prem), for lower leagues, kind of a journeyman academy. But they at least seem to stay in the game. Where do the rest go?

Boro have a very good youth academy, Chris Brunt, Stewart Downing and Danny Graham are others still playing in the Prem. Another good one is Southampton - Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chaimberlain, etc

[beamer]

I think as well as the technique issues, which come about at an early age due to "get stuck in" and "win at all costs" junior football where the biggest dominate over the most skilful, there also seems to be something that puts the wrong attitude into the heads of the players, they think they've made it as a youngster at a big club, maybe play a Carling Cup game and start on the superstar lifestyle.

We need to somehow get our clubs and academies following the Spanish model, they're clearly doing something right. Try and get us producing Xavis and Iniestas rather than just concentrating on pace and power. It's about keeping the ball at the highest level now. There's still a place for different styles of play, and our league is better for having the odd team like Stoke, but we just don't produce enough players who are comfortable on the ball. In terms of the league itself though, it's been a dramatic fall in the last couple of years to get to the point where Man Utd get outclassed by Spain's 11th best team at present.

[Gary 111]

I think as well as the technique issues, which come about at an early age due to "get stuck in" and "win at all costs" junior football where the biggest dominate over the most skilful, there also seems to be something that puts the wrong attitude into the heads of the players, they think they've made it as a youngster at a big club, maybe play a Carling Cup game and start on the superstar lifestyle.

We need to somehow get our clubs and academies following the Spanish model, they're clearly doing something right. Try and get us producing Xavis and Iniestas rather than just concentrating on pace and power. It's about keeping the ball at the highest level now. There's still a place for different styles of play, and our league is better for having the odd team like Stoke, but we just don't produce enough players who are comfortable on the ball. In terms of the league itself though, it's been a dramatic fall in the last couple of years to get to the point where Man Utd get outclassed by Spain's 11th best team at present.

I think this is starting to change (many years too late!), but there will always be a time lag, as the 19-20 yearolds coming through now would likely have first been scouted into the system in 2003, 2004, etc.

[beamer]

Hopefully the new St George's Park centre at Burton will have an impact. France had their great era after investing in a similar coaching facility. We need to get the right people involved though.

[Brass Monkey]

Aye, the new coaching centre should be amazing. It's a surprise that it has taken us this long to get something like this sorted. Especially with all the money being chucked around. I think we've finally learned that only something as abundant as this can maintain, hopefully improve, our standing on the world stage. I coached quite a bit earlier in life so cannot judge for recent times, but it was definitely the most tenacious and aggressive wins... it has to stop. Because it doesn't cut it outside Div 2.

[lardbucket]

1. Do people have a burning desire to excel at curling, and specifically that bit where they're sweeping the ice so that the stone goes this way or that, or is it just something that happens when they've found out that they're no good at anything else?

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