Have players found a way to beat hotspot?

by Red Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:25

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/08/07/drs-dodging-have-players-found-a-way-to-beat-hot-spot/

No stopping players from getting any advantage they can.

KP's bat was certainly put in the spotlight.

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

by Basil Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:27

This is hardly news- there have been rumours circulating for well over a year that some batsmen have applied Vaseline to their bat edges to circumvent Hotspot.

by taipan Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:27

And Trike and I were discussing it a few days ago.

by Red Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:32

Of course given that the umpires relied on the naked eye and sound to send some players on their way they hardly dodged a bullet anyway.

by taipan Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:34

Red wrote:Of course given that the umpires relied on the naked eye and sound to send some players on their way they hardly dodged a bullet anyway.

UK, you mean?

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:45

It seems clear that it's not only Vaseline that can give 'false negatives'. Acute deflections striking at a tangent, breezy conditions, are two other cases that seem to reduce hotspot to virtually nothing. A nanoblip at best.

It looks like a piece of technology that works best when there is a very clear contact. Which, you'd have thought, would almost always be picked up by one of the other devices (e.g. a good umpiring eye) in any case.

by Fred Nerk Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:56

Seems a risky move - if you lessen the bat's impact on the ball, it might fool Hot Spot but it might also dull the edge so it goes down first slip's throat instead of past the sightscreen.

by taipan Wed 07 Aug 2013, 09:59

Fred Nerk wrote:Seems a risky move - if you lessen the bat's impact on the ball, it might fool Hot Spot but it might also dull the edge so it goes down first slip's throat instead of past the sightscreen.

Also doesn't help you if you get a slight inside edge and get stuck LBW.

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:03

Risky, but I suppose most batsmen contemplating Vaseline would (justifiably or not) trust their own batting skills more than detective/defective technology.

And re: LBW - I suppose outside edges would come in for rather more petroleumising than inside edges! Strangling and inside edges to the keeper generally - too bad! But no cheat tecnology is perfect.

by JGK Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:12

We should probably start the series over again.

by tricycle Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:14

JGK wrote:We should probably start the series over again.

snigger

The comments in the article are funny

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:19

Here's the BBC on hot(spot) news ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23598798

Ashes 2013: ICC to discuss DRS with England and Australia

A senior International Cricket Council official is to meet counterparts from England and Australia to discuss recent Decision Review System controversies.

Several incidents over the use of technology have occurred in the Ashes.

Hot Spot, which uses infra-red images to detect whether batsmen have nicked the ball, has been heavily criticised.

England wicketkeeper Matt Prior told the Daily Telegraph: "I am not sure we trust Hot Spot any more. There are so many edges it has missed."

ICC general manager Geoff Allardice will meet England and Australia in Durham ahead of the fourth Ashes Test, which begins on Friday.

Hot Spot inventor Warren Brennan, who is believed to have held talks with Allardice, is due to give a statement on Wednesday.

"It makes it hard to decide what to review," Prior added.

"I know by the feel of the ball hitting the glove if there has been an edge. Cooky [England captain Alastair Cook] and I look at each other and say "he hit it" but then we worry if Hot Spot is going to show up a mark. It leaves you wondering what you review and what you do not review."

During the current series, which England lead 2-0, both the hosts and Australia have sought explanations from the ICC over the DRS system, which allows each team two unsuccessful referrals per innings.

In the first Test at Trent Bridge, England batsman Jonathan Trott was initially given not out by on-field umpire Aleem Dar but after a review from Australia the decision was overturned by television umpire Marais Erasmus, although it later became evident that key pictures were not available.

The ICC admitted it was one of "three uncorrected errors" during the match.

And, in the Old Trafford Test, Australia batsman Usman Khawaja reviewed a caught behind decision from on-field umpire Tony Hill, but despite Hot Spot technology appearing to back the left-hander's view that he had not touched the ball, television umpire Kumar Dharmasena upheld the verdict.

Former England captain Michael Atherton, writing in The Times, said: "Given that Hot Spot is clearly unable to pick up many fine edges, how much credence does the third umpire ascribe to it? Hot Spot is doing a perfectly good DRS system more harm than good."

Excellent news.

by taipan Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:22

PeterCS wrote:Risky, but I suppose most batsmen contemplating Vaseline would (justifiably or not) trust their own batting skills more than detective/defective technology.

And re: LBW - I suppose outside edges would come in for rather more petroleumising than inside edges! Strangling and inside edges to the keeper generally - too bad! But no cheat tecnology is perfect.

Obviously Trott got it wrong.

by JGK Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:23

tricycle wrote:
JGK wrote:We should probably start the series over again.
snigger

The comments in the article are funny

I post on The Roar quite a bit actually (have even written a few articles).

It is a lot more highbrow there here (although as Lardy pointed out, that isn't hard) but NSR abounds in spades.

by The One Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:29

its a bit worrying if a certain piece of technology is not treated seriously by the umps themselves. sometimes they use it, sometimes they just ignore it. maybe it needs to be flicked off the DRS till it is found to be reliable

and this is england. it performs even worse in hot conditions

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:30

How's Geordieland, Mr K?

by JGK Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:33

Still in Manchester actually, having breakfast in a lovely little cafe I found in the Northern Quarter.

Lovely because it isn't one of the gazillion coffee chains you get in all major uk cities.

And it's right across the road from a comic book shop that could be straight out of the Simpsons.

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:35

Ah - a caff!

Where it's called "frothy coffee", not capuccino ... !

by tricycle Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:36

PeterCS wrote:Here's the BBC on hot(spot) news ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23598798

Former England captain Michael Atherton, writing in The Times, said: "Given that Hot Spot is clearly unable to pick up many fine edges, how much credence does the third umpire ascribe to it? Hot Spot is doing a perfectly good DRS system more harm than good."

Excellent news.

Can't agree with Atherton, hot spot is one of three elements usually used in DRS (apart from Hawkeye and slow mos) and one of two usually conclusive elements. If that's not working, then it can't just be written off as the system's perfectly fine. Also, it's not that there haven't been hawkeye controversies, the Rogers dismissal in the first test, for example, seemed poor enough to review.

by taipan Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:39

tricycle wrote:
PeterCS wrote:Here's the BBC on hot(spot) news ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23598798

Former England captain Michael Atherton, writing in The Times, said: "Given that Hot Spot is clearly unable to pick up many fine edges, how much credence does the third umpire ascribe to it? Hot Spot is doing a perfectly good DRS system more harm than good."

Excellent news.
Can't agree with Atherton, hot spot is one of three elements usually used in DRS (apart from Hawkeye and slow mos) and one of two usually conclusive elements. If that's not working, then it can't just be written off as the system's perfectly fine. Also, it's not that there haven't been hawkeye controversies, the Rogers dismissal in the first test, for example, seemed poor enough to review.

And the audio feed. This seems to be the one that doesn't always agree with hotspot.

by JGK Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:40

Hotspot should only be used as positive evidence of an edge, not evidence of no edge.

Pretty simple.

by tricycle Wed 07 Aug 2013, 10:45

Yeah, that would work if the players are made aware of it.

JGK wrote:
tricycle wrote:
JGK wrote:We should probably start the series over again.
snigger

The comments in the article are funny

I post on The Roar quite a bit actually (have even written a few articles).

It is a lot more highbrow there here (although as Lardy pointed out, that isn't hard) but NSR abounds in spades.

Fair enough, never really visited the site much. Is the content largely reader written?

by baggygreen Wed 07 Aug 2013, 11:04

Jono L used to write on there Trike. Although the cycling section is mostly AAP stories, there are some decent user articles.

Haven't really gone on the cricket side of things but is the form follows the articles are usually ok but when you have lots of commenters the discussion is bad. Not new-site comment bad mind you. Very Happy

by JGK Wed 07 Aug 2013, 11:16

tricycle wrote:Yeah, that would work if the players are made aware of it.

JGK wrote:
tricycle wrote:
JGK wrote:We should probably start the series over again.
snigger

The comments in the article are funny

I post on The Roar quite a bit actually (have even written a few articles).

It is a lot more highbrow there here (although as Lardy pointed out, that isn't hard) but NSR abounds in spades.

Fair enough, never really visited the site much. Is the content largely reader written?

Content is 50-50 between pro writers (with the articles in red) and amateurs (in blue).

I got on to them via my uncle who used to be a pro writer on the site before he died a couple of years ago.

The pro writing is as varied as the amateur to be honest with the editors not really rationing topics. So often you'll get half a dozen articles n the same topic.

Alec Swann is o e of the Pro writers and is generally very good.

by PeterCS Wed 07 Aug 2013, 12:09

Alec Swann the former Northants & Lancs opener? And brother of?

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