This about Swann (or other offie) being "dangerous v left-handers"

When did this creep into cricket commentaries and articles?

Okay, the "offbreak and variations" type of bowling is clearly handy to left-handers, particularly as it opens up a wider range of edge-of-the-bat v LBW/bowled variations, depending on degree of spin imparted (straight ball, arm ball, tweak, big rip).

Likewise, a SLA might particularly lick his lips when bowling to right-handers.


But since when have spinners been anointed as expets and grandmasters purely on the basis of bowling to batsmen one way round or the other?

I'd have thought a true expert of spin would be expected to ask questions of ANY batsman.

Have I missed something?

Is it an English media thing with Swann being class to left handers?

Without scouring statsguru, don't think Herath or Ajmal, even with his elbow, have a major discrepancy in his record between left and right. Don't remember it in their broadcasts/print.

They do go on about it quite a bit, esp in relation to Swann.

It sometimes sounds a bit like an excuse when he is not bowling his most effective spells against right-handers.

I wonder if Danny or someone can extract some relevant data, comparing RHB v LHB stats, if these exist?

53% of Swann's wickets are RH

I'd be interested to know what proportion of Swann's deliveries were sent down to right and left handers respectively.

14 257 balls in total. Can't find a split

In that case, it seems the pundits should find a new topic to burble about!

Thanks for the stats input, taipan.

(Not sure he can have delivered quite as many to LHBs as RHBs, if that's what you meant - but the tendency seems clear enough that there is little difference.)

PeterCS wrote:When did this creep into cricket commentaries and articles?

Okay, the "offbreak and variations" type of bowling is clearly handy to left-handers, particularly as it opens up a wider range of edge-of-the-bat v LBW/bowled variations, depending on degree of spin imparted (straight ball, arm ball, tweak, big rip).

Likewise, a SLA might particularly lick his lips when bowling to right-handers.


But since when have spinners been anointed as expets and grandmasters purely on the basis of bowling to batsmen one way round or the other?

I'd have thought a true expert of spin would be expected to ask questions of ANY batsman.

Have I missed something?

I think the assumption is that the ball spinning away from the bat is the more dangerous proposition.

I don't think it proves anything either way as Ajmal averages 65%. I would guess that the batsman split is probably 70/30 RH to LH. So Swann would be below average against RH.

However Swann isn't prepare to chuck in order to throw in the doosra which is more dangerous to RH. So we can argue Ajmal's stats are also flawed.

Basil wrote:

PeterCS wrote:When did this creep into cricket commentaries and articles?

Okay, the "offbreak and variations" type of bowling is clearly handy to left-handers, particularly as it opens up a wider range of edge-of-the-bat v LBW/bowled variations, depending on degree of spin imparted (straight ball, arm ball, tweak, big rip).

Likewise, a SLA might particularly lick his lips when bowling to right-handers.


But since when have spinners been anointed as expets and grandmasters purely on the basis of bowling to batsmen one way round or the other?

I'd have thought a true expert of spin would be expected to ask questions of ANY batsman.

Have I missed something?

I think the assumption is that the ball spinning away from the bat is the more dangerous proposition.

Aye Baz, I tried to imply that in the second sentence I wrote. Though obviously, a predictable sort of spin-away would not generally be so dangerous as a mix of variations of speed, pitch, angle of spin (or no spin / topspin, etc), which was my whole sentence, so to speak.

I think Swann's record bowling to LHB is noticeably better than to RHB.

I couldn't find the current numbers, but found this cricinfo article from 2012, comparing Swann and Ajmal.

(Feb 2012)
Swann v right-handers: 78 wickets @ 36.66, s/r 67.85
Ajmal v right-handers: 65 wickets @ 25.80, s/r 57.34
Swann v left-handers: 84 wickets @ 21.05, s/r 48.33
Ajmal v left-handers: 35 wickets @ 30.08, s/r 72.14

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/551882.html

Well to change it up a bit. Warne has 76% of his dismissals against RH, so that would support the contention of the ball spinning away being more dangerous.

taipan wrote:I don't think it proves anything either way as Ajmal averages 65%. I would guess that the batsman split is probably 70/30 RH to LH. So Swann would be below average against RH.

However Swann isn't prepare to chuck in order to throw in the doosra which is more dangerous to RH. So we can argue Ajmal's stats are also flawed.

Yes, the "finger-spin wrong un" is clearly a further trick up the sleeve (or rather, in the hand). But as is often observed (and as you indicate), it is normally regarded as difficult to bowl that other type of "wrong un" with controlled effect, unless it is a ..... well, a "WRONG un".

Why do they talk about GP Swann versus left-handers?

The following analysis is bollocks, because he's taken 245 Test wickets and these stats will be tallied up to 248 wickets. But, it should be accurate enough.

Hand	Wickets( % )	Average	S/R
Right	132( 53.2 )	32.68	67.3
Left	116( 46.8 )	26.18	46.3

Given that, apparently, 24% of batsmen bat left-handed, if you boil it down he gets almost twice the chance of getting a RHB out yet he takes approximately 30% longer to take a right-handed wicket, you can see why it gets mentioned.

Brass Monkey wrote:Why do they talk about GP Swann versus left-handers?

The following analysis is bollocks, because he's taken 245 Test wickets and these stats will be tallied up to 248 wickets. But, it should be accurate enough.

Hand	Wickets( % )	Average	S/R
Right	132( 53.2 )	32.68	67.3
Left	116( 46.8 )	26.18	46.3

Given that, apparently, 24% of batsmen bat left-handed, if you boil it down he gets almost twice the chance of getting a RHB out yet he takes approximately 30% longer to take a right-handed wicket, you can see why it gets mentioned.

For interest sakes, where does the 24% come from?

If so, is it noticeably different from other offies? (perhaps excluding Ajmal, who is a more miscellaneous type of bowler, from this argument).

Lyon, for obvious example. Though his shorter career to date might not produce very decisive figures.

taipan wrote:
For interest sakes, where does the 24% come from?

Some BBC article about batsmen at the last world cup. Rough estimate.

Brass Monkey wrote:

taipan wrote:
For interest sakes, where does the 24% come from?

Some BBC article about batsmen at the last world cup. Rough estimate.

We were discussing it the other day. Last me see if I can find the discussion.

taipan wrote:Well to change it up a bit. Warne has 76% of his dismissals against RH, so that would support the contention of the ball spinning away being more dangerous.

But then the stats are muddied by the fact that Ashley Giles took 100% of his dismissals with balls that neither span in or away from batsmen.

The difference between Dello's figures (which must actually predate Jan 2012) and Monkey's seems to suggest the discrepancy has been diminishing quite a bit in the course of the last 83 wickets (a notable confluence).

Interesting stuff - my thanks to all three who have unearthed some evidence, however inconsistent the conclusions might be from the three bases!

taipan wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

taipan wrote:
For interest sakes, where does the 24% come from?

Some BBC article about batsmen at the last world cup. Rough estimate.

We were discussing it the other day. Last me see if I can find the discussion.

There is a link on the Cook Captaincy thread.

PeterCS wrote:If so, is it noticeably different from other offies? (perhaps excluding Ajmal, who is a more miscellaneous type of bowler, from this argument).

Lyon, for obvious example. Though his shorter career to date might not produce very decisive figures.

Again, sorry for the statistics, they're wrong - I can't be f*cked to find out where, but this analysis is for 87 wickets when actually Lyon has 84.

Hand	Wickets( % )	Average	S/R
Right	65 ( 74.7 )	21.26	38.8
Left	22( 25.3 )	36.54	127.3

Dello wrote:

taipan wrote:Well to change it up a bit. Warne has 76% of his dismissals against RH, so that would support the contention of the ball spinning away being more dangerous.

But then the stats are muddied by the fact that Ashley Giles took 100% of his dismissals with balls that neither span in or away from batsmen.

I DEFINITELY saw one of Gilo's turn - must have been ... 2004?

I think it may have hit a little bit of sh*t on the pitch.

PeterCS wrote:The difference between Dello's figures (which must actually predate Jan 2012) and Monkey's seems to suggest the discrepancy has been diminishing quite a bit in the course of the last 83 wickets (a notable confluence).

Interesting stuff - my thanks to all three who have unearthed some evidence, however inconsistent the conclusions might be from the three bases!

I think the % of RH to LH remained constant if my mental arithmetic is correct.

PeterCS wrote:
Interesting stuff - my thanks to all three who have unearthed some evidence, however inconsistent the conclusions might be from the three bases!

I'm not confident in the accuracy of my statistics, not to the most succinct of levels, but it gives a rough enough guide.