England's WI tour

You know things are bad when England's cricket team is even less likeable than the football team.

Henry wrote:Did we have Allan Donald as the bowling coach for a couple of months at one stage? Or is that my imagination?

Well he doesn't seem to be doing much for SA.

Neil D wrote:You know things are bad when England's cricket team is even less likeable than the football team.

Jesus, you aren't wrong. Hasn't been the case for well over a decade, maybe more.

Talking of bowling coaches, I presume that you guys have gone through this before, so apologies in advance - but do you think we could perhaps try managing without a bowling coach and see how we get on?

Radical I know - but the last few (all?) have delivered jack shit.

Additionally, aren't these bowlers supposed to be International class - as such you'd hope by that stage they'd be capable of knowing where to bowl, how to bowl in given situations etc.

It's absurd - you are at the top of your profession, you are extremely well remunerated - but you need someone to tell you what to do and how to do it.

Am I right in thinking that the bowlers of pre-bowling coach vintage were able to land it on the pitch or is it all just a myth that the likes of Holding, Lillee, Trueman, Lindwall, Larwood were great bowlers?

Sorry for previous message and the diversion it took into bowling coach rant.

Back to the point - this series, between two so-so teams, could be a big hurdle for England. I know that Gayle is off doing his usual mercenary routine with the Queen's Own Fusilliers Bangalore but how many other WI Test calibre players are likely to be out of play?

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Sorry for previous message and the diversion it took into bowling coach rant.

Back to the point - this series, between two so-so teams, could be a big hurdle for England. I know that Gayle is off doing his usual mercenary routine with the Queen's Own Fusilliers Bangalore but how many other WI Test calibre players are likely to be out of play?

West Indies have test calibre players?

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Talking of bowling coaches, I presume that you guys have gone through this before, so apologies in advance - but do you think we could perhaps try managing without a bowling coach and see how we get on?

Radical I know - but the last few (all?) have delivered jack shit.

Additionally, aren't these bowlers supposed to be International class - as such you'd hope by that stage they'd be capable of knowing where to bowl, how to bowl in given situations etc.

It's absurd - you are at the top of your profession, you are extremely well remunerated - but you need someone to tell you what to do and how to do it.

Am I right in thinking that the bowlers of pre-bowling coach vintage were able to land it on the pitch or is it all just a myth that the likes of Holding, Lillee, Trueman, Lindwall, Larwood were great bowlers?

It's hard to know if this generation need more coaching or less. Chris Jordan doesn't have a run up, for example. A professional cricketer, a specialist bowler. He doesn't know the basics. It's astonishing.

And let's not even get into the catastrophic limb jamboree that is Steven Finn.

What is certain is that every England bowler who has gone through the "system" under the ECB's fast bowling guru Kevin Shine has either A) gotten worse, B) gotten injured, C) lost pace, D) lost confidence, E) lost it completely. Usually a combination of everything. His "strength and conditioning programme" has crocked virtually everyone that has been subjected to it.

And, according to Brett Lee, it's counter-productive to bowling fast. He believes bulking up in the gym costs you pace - and Shine's results absolutely bear that out.

I don't know how he's still bluffing a living. Probably as part of the ECB's "he's a nice bloke from a nice family" initiative.

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Talking of bowling coaches, I presume that you guys have gone through this before, so apologies in advance - but do you think we could perhaps try managing without a bowling coach and see how we get on?

Radical I know - but the last few (all?) have delivered jack shit.

Additionally, aren't these bowlers supposed to be International class - as such you'd hope by that stage they'd be capable of knowing where to bowl, how to bowl in given situations etc.

It's absurd - you are at the top of your profession, you are extremely well remunerated - but you need someone to tell you what to do and how to do it.

Am I right in thinking that the bowlers of pre-bowling coach vintage were able to land it on the pitch or is it all just a myth that the likes of Holding, Lillee, Trueman, Lindwall, Larwood were great bowlers?

Hence my overcoaching post a couple of days ago.

Basil wrote:

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Sorry for previous message and the diversion it took into bowling coach rant.

Back to the point - this series, between two so-so teams, could be a big hurdle for England. I know that Gayle is off doing his usual mercenary routine with the Queen's Own Fusilliers Bangalore but how many other WI Test calibre players are likely to be out of play?

West Indies have test calibre players?

Heehee - depends on the definition of test calibre I suppose. But I reckon Holder would walk into our team (and a few others). Jerome Taylor when he's in a groove isn't half bad - although from what I saw on TV he was utter filth at the beginning of the last WI tour to S.Africa so maybe he's just not up to it. If Roach could re-discover his pace then I think he's good enough too. Batting-wise they're God-awful - maybe the kid at the top, Brathwaite, has what it takes - we'll see. If he can't score any runs against our lot then that'll be a no. There's always Darren (I'm Brian Lara's cousin so I'll swagger and posture like him even though I have less than 1% of his talent) Bravo to count on.

Dello wrote:

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Talking of bowling coaches, I presume that you guys have gone through this before, so apologies in advance - but do you think we could perhaps try managing without a bowling coach and see how we get on?

Radical I know - but the last few (all?) have delivered jack shit.

Additionally, aren't these bowlers supposed to be International class - as such you'd hope by that stage they'd be capable of knowing where to bowl, how to bowl in given situations etc.

It's absurd - you are at the top of your profession, you are extremely well remunerated - but you need someone to tell you what to do and how to do it.

Am I right in thinking that the bowlers of pre-bowling coach vintage were able to land it on the pitch or is it all just a myth that the likes of Holding, Lillee, Trueman, Lindwall, Larwood were great bowlers?

It's hard to know if this generation need more coaching or less. Chris Jordan doesn't have a run up, for example. A professional cricketer, a specialist bowler. He doesn't know the basics. It's astonishing.

And let's not even get into the catastrophic limb jamboree that is Steven Finn.

What is certain is that every England bowler who has gone through the "system" under the ECB's fast bowling guru Kevin Shine has either A) gotten worse, B) gotten injured, C) lost pace, D) lost confidence, E) lost it completely. Usually a combination of everything. His "strength and conditioning programme" has crocked virtually everyone that has been subjected to it.

And, according to Brett Lee, it's counter-productive to bowling fast. He believes bulking up in the gym costs you pace - and Shine's results absolutely bear that out.

I don't know how he's still bluffing a living. Probably as part of the ECB's "he's a nice bloke from a nice family" initiative.

Maybe Shine is like Tredwell and is a good tourist? Or does he give 'good conversation'?

I'm not sure Finn was ever the next great hope he was quite made out to be. But Shine and Co. certainly seem to have destroyed whatever talent and belief he had. To be fair to the kid being called 'unselectable' by your national coach probably doesn't help too much either.

When/who was the first England bowling coach? I can go back as far as Troy Cooley - who seemed to get a lot of credit for making our attack highly feared. Was that credit deserved? Or did he just happen to be the right man in place when a clutch of decent talent came along - Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Jones - and just let them get on with it. And was he the guy who originally mucked about with Anderson's technique to disastrous effect?

Jordan is scary - he's like a golfer with the yips. I can imagine one day he might just halt mid-stride (if you can call it that) halfway to the crease and be locked in position until he's stretchered off on a sponsored drinks cart.

Welcome aboard Lindsay no.2

Is Lindsay a ship?

The sprinkler dance might have a replacement ...

"At risk of taking the "horses for courses" mantra a shade too literally, Wood has offered a bizarre insight into what helps him keep concentration during the long days in the outfield – an imaginary horse. "There are times when it gets boring in the field, so I bring out the imaginary horse and try to joust my team-mates," Wood told the Guardian, with a straight face. "I don't know how the England boys will take it, but I'll have a go. I like to have a trot and feed him apples – he loves Granny Smiths. "Sometimes it's just the pick-me-up the lads need. "The horse will probably come with me to the Caribbean if he gets through immigration. "If they don't like it then I can just tie him up and leave him somewhere." Whether Wood proves to be a fast-bowling thoroughbred at Test level, or is quickly put out to pasture before the Aussies arrive, only time will tell.

That's fantastic. English people are at their best when they're just being bloody odd.

It won't be long before the England management get stuck into him for that. Individuality = weakness in their book.

Maybe we'll employ an equestrian coach and he'll work his magic to the extent that Wood becomes so befuddled the his imaginary horse pulls up lame in the outfield and has to be shot in the head.

And then ends up being sold by Tesco as beefburgers.

There's a tragedy brewing.

Imaginary "Beef" Burgers ...think of the weight loss potential

Growing up, one of the genuine pleasures of international cricket used to be observing the occasional amiable lunatic in the English team, a fine tradition that goes back in my memory to Derek Randall, then Gower, Tufnell and Russell. Somewhere around the late 90s and 2000s this type of fella seemed to disappear. I don't include the likes of Irani, Swann, KP as worthy successors. I hope this fella makes it, would be a pity to see him disappear.

Shame Ray East never got a Test.

Eccentrics ... We need them.

The tour match is being streamed. It's shit quality though.
http://www.windiescricket.com/news/watch-live-st-kitts-nevis-vs-england

St. Kitts batting

tricycle wrote:The tour match is being streamed. It's shit quality though.

The stream or the cricket? Both, I suspect...

Both. Till Stokes started bowling, anyway. Two wickets in a couple of overs.

Erm 43/6

59 AO. Well this is completely and utterly pointless.

Well, let's see how our batsmen get on... at least we've avoided the follow-on before the start!