Nasser- Toughen up England

Merlin wrote:
Truth hurts though.
Gimme Naz anyday.
And Guiness ...

Yeah, but I'd warrant that this 'Team England' isn't confident enough to take a constant shellacking.

In which case, expect total disintegration come September 2008 !

Merlin wrote:In which case, expect total disintegration come September 2008 !

I'm prepared for the worst. Got no confidence in our bowling or batting. Expect Dale Steyn to roll us. Expect James Kirtley and RMJ to be in by the 3rd Test...

Definitely some sensible comments from Nass, need to get back to basics as John Major would say. Though not sure we should be taking leadership advice from him though.

Plenty of chance for rebuilding with 6 tests against a poor NZ team.

One of the first tough measures was dropping Prior, despite his (moderate) success with the bat. It came as a surprise, but it was a positive step, shows no-ones place is safe. The likes of Bell, Strauss, Harmison need to really excel themselves in the next few tests or follow him onto the scrapheap.

With the likes of Broad, Rashid, and one or two others there should be plenty of players to come in - though one or two young top order batsmen in FC cricket scoring heavily wouldn't go amiss.

The acid test will come against SA, and it should be a cracking series. Though I wish we still had 5 test summer. India was cry out for 5 last year, and SA this year should have been too.

Gary 111 wrote:The likes of Bell, Strauss, Harmison need to really excel themselves in the next few tests or follow him onto the scrapheap.

Bell was our best bat vs Sri Lanka.


WTF does Colly always get a free pass? It's always Bell, Bell, Bell that people whinge about. Colly averaged 33 in Sri Lanka and 33 vs India.

But he's One day Captain and bowls a bit so he's worth keeping in the team and slobbering over. No-one ever says anything about Colly. One double ton on a flat as f*ck track in Adelaide and his place is safe forever it seems.

Both Bell and Collingwood should be under pressure. Both failed against India and both failed against Sri Lanka. They need to start scoring centuries consistently - 1 in Sri Lanka for the entire side was pathetic.

Bell's record of 1 ton in his last 15 Tests is worthy of the axe, especially when that one came against the softest attack of all in the 15 matches and in the blanket security of 3 others scored around him.

At least Collingwood's got 3 in 15, and two of them have been real noteworthy efforts as well. But he's had 6 barren games on the bounce. Though he can point to 7 wickets in that time and being Englands best fielder.

Gary 111 wrote:

At least Collingwood's got 3 in 15, and two of them have been real noteworthy efforts as well.

Really? Which two?

A double hundred against Australia, and two of the worst hundreds you'll ever see against the West Indies during which he must have been dropped a combined total of around six times.

Frankly, if it wasn't for filling their boots against the West Indies, Bell and Collingwood wouldn't have contributed anything of note towards England's batting cause in 2007.

The sad thing is what have we got coming through that is pushing those 2 for their place - Ravi Bopara?

Owais Shah?

One batsman will have to make way for Strauss - that would be Bopara, that's the easy one. Don't write off Rob Key, he has something to offer I think.

Hildreth will probably get a chance in an ODI sooner rather than later, so let's see how he goes.

The big unknown - Marcus Trescothick: does he or does he not want to play again for England? My gut feeling is that he will play and quite possibly in ODIs only this year.

After that Joe Denly I suppose.

It would be good for David Sales to get a go just so Batfink can go apeshit on here. Is he made of the right stuff though - my gut instinct says no.

After that little lot, it looks like we''l have to wait for Billy Godleman to come through and maybe Moeen Ali.

I think Shah needs a few tests. If he can score big on what are often tricky wickets in NZ then he'll earn a guaranteed starting berth for a while.

Billy Godleman must be on the the radar if not for this year, then perhaps the year after. He doesn't seem all that soft.

Gary 111 wrote:I think Shah needs a few tests. If he can score big on what are often tricky wickets in NZ then he'll earn a guaranteed starting berth for a while.

He just needs a fair crack. Two Tests (one a success, one a failure) spaced out over three years - and dropped immediately afterwards - is in no way a fair crack.

Bopara at least got a whole series to settle in. It didn't work out for him this time, but at least he was given the chance to succeed.

'Hubris', deffo word of the week. What does it mean?

Gary 111 wrote:Both Bell and Collingwood should be under pressure. Both failed against India and both failed against Sri Lanka. They need to start scoring centuries consistently - 1 in Sri Lanka for the entire side was pathetic.

Bell's record of 1 ton in his last 15 Tests is worthy of the axe, especially when that one came against the softest attack of all in the 15 matches and in the blanket security of 3 others scored around him.

At least Collingwood's got 3 in 15, and two of them have been real noteworthy efforts as well. But he's had 6 barren games on the bounce. Though he can point to 7 wickets in that time and being Englands best fielder.

Err...Bell was our best bat vs Sri Lanka.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:Both Bell and Collingwood should be under pressure. Both failed against India and both failed against Sri Lanka. They need to start scoring centuries consistently - 1 in Sri Lanka for the entire side was pathetic.

Bell's record of 1 ton in his last 15 Tests is worthy of the axe, especially when that one came against the softest attack of all in the 15 matches and in the blanket security of 3 others scored around him.

At least Collingwood's got 3 in 15, and two of them have been real noteworthy efforts as well. But he's had 6 barren games on the bounce. Though he can point to 7 wickets in that time and being Englands best fielder.

Err...Bell was our best bat vs Sri Lanka.

Aye LLL.

We're batting him too high though, most of his tons have come down the order.

Yeah, should be batting at 5, Rob. I've been saying it for years - he's the new Thorpey. Or as close as we're going to get.

If he's batting so well how come he's not getting any tons. 1 in 15, in the easiest match of the lot.

Its centuries that which win matches, not pretty 50s - which as we saw in Kandy did nothing to stop England losing. If he can't produce the volume of runs expected of an international batsman then we should find someone who can.

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Yeah, should be batting at 5, Rob. I've been saying it for years - he's the new Thorpey. Or as close as we're going to get.

PMSL

Gary 111 wrote:If he's batting so well how come he's not getting any tons. 1 in 15, in the easiest match of the lot.

Its centuries that which win matches, not pretty 50s - which as we saw in Kandy did nothing to stop England losing. If he can't produce the volume of runs expected of an international batsman then we should find someone who can.

It doesn't change the fact that he was our best bat and averaged in the mid 40s for the series. It's not just centuries that win matches, it's significant contributions. Bell contributed in the majority of innings' he played in the series and he topped the averages.

There was a match to be saved and ultimately a series at Kandy, but Bell flattered to deceive yet again. Just like in the Ashes how he continued to make pretty 50s rather than threaten to affect the match with a hundred.

Even when he's playing well he throws it away. He's got to grow up very quickly or get dropped, he's no longer a junior player and the investment must come to good now.

Gary 111 wrote:
Even when he's playing well he throws it away. He's got to grow up very quickly or get dropped, he's no longer a junior player and the investment must come to good now.

Bell at #3 Average 35, 0 x 100

Bell at #6 Average 58, 4 x 100.

QED.

Although his innings at 6 were mainly against some very friendly Pakistan & West Indies bowling - they don't apply the same intensity, by the time Bell gets to 50 he's grinded them down and he makes a hundred. Against stronger teams they carry on applying pressure to him after he's reached 50 - they know the job isn't done, Bell gifts his wicket away.

E.g. against a stronger Indian bowling attack batting at 6 Bell's stats are:

Average 26.75, 0 x 100

For most normal batsmen (e.g. Ponting) you would see that trend reversed, at 6 they get more 50's as they are batting with the tail or to set up a declaration, whilst at 3 they have more chance to dominate and to score 100's.

Err, actually Ponting averages 12 against India.

No he doesn't, he averages 46.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, County Cricket produces players with no mental capacity to play long innings without gifting it away.

Bell/Colly replaced by Shah/Sales

Hell lets go for it - just get the feeling we'd be replacing a big steaming pile of turd with some Diahorrea!!!