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Fletcher still obsessed with the pace!

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Fletcher still obsessed with the pace! Empty Fletcher still obsessed with the pace!

Post by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:33

You can see his point. Although he took it to extremes after Ashes....
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/10/italian_uninterested_in_inflat.html

First things first. Congratulations to Jimmy Anderson and Ryan Sidebottom for exploiting the swing at Trent Bridge so ruthlessly, and very well batted Kevin Pietersen, who really should have been man of the match for proving his class in what was essentially a bowler's game. But watching England's victory, I just couldn't shake off this nagging concern that against better sides in tougher conditions they will not dig themselves out of a hole so easily.

I said before the series started that my one big concern about this England attack is its sameness, especially when it comes to pace. That's not an issue if the ball is swinging like it did in Nottingham but 80% of the time in Test cricket the conditions are going to be less helpful. That was always my fear when I was trying to build bowling attacks: I needed to keep in mind the task of creating a side for all occasions, and that means a team capable of taking 20 wickets in the subcontinent. That's why sticking with Simon Jones was a good option when at first others questioned his selection.

It would be nice to see Stuart Broad, who has such exciting potential, to strengthen up so that he can touch 90mph. If he can do that and Andrew Flintoff returns, England are covering their bases. But if he's just going to bowl at 80-85mph, you're not going to get top-class sides out, and Broad is then reduced to doing the holding job. I'm just hoping that as he matures he will add a few mphs to the speedgun.

It's one of my bugbears but I believe that to succeed consistently in Test cricket you need an attack with genuine pace, which is advantageous in any conditions because even for the best batsmen there is absolutely no margin for error. Australia have Brett Lee, South Africa have Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel and Pakistan always looked more dangerous when Shoaib Akhtar was playing. The reason India have traditionally struggled overseas is because of their lack of cutting edge.

Having said that, it was fantastic to see the way Anderson bowled. Like Jones, he's a bowler who can get you five-fors, and the most pleasing aspect is the way he's learned to bowl the inswinger. He's a bowler who's willing to listen and learn and the way he set up Jacob Oram in the first innings showed how far he's come in the last few years. It irritates me when people say he was Troy Cooley's one failure as a bowling coach. We tried to change Jimmy's action because Troy, being the visionary he was, believed there was a chance of a serious back injury. I think it did confuse Jimmy a bit but what are you supposed to do as a coach if you spot the danger signs? Ignore them?

It's rare to have a swing bowler like Jimmy who can bowl top batsmen out. We saw two classic examples at Trent Bridge with Aaron Redmond and Brendon McCullum, who were both done by the angle because they thought the ball was going down leg. Most swing bowlers try to get batsmen to nick off, with the left-hander being an lbw option, but Jimmy has both those options plus the priceless ability to bowl batsmen.

England must realise, though, that they won't always recover from 86 for five on the first day. Against a team in transition like New Zealand you'll maybe escape from that position two times out of five. But against South Africa, England's next Test opponents, the figure is going to be once or twice in 10.

That makes the question of Flintoff's potential return a very tricky one. Do England want to bat deep - and we saw the benefits of that once more in this Test - in which case one of the bowlers might have to make way? But is he fit enough to be part of a four-man attack? Or do they bat Flintoff at No7, below Tim Ambrose, who supported Pietersen very well at Trent Bridge, in which case one of the batsmen must miss out? It's a really tough decision for the selectors and it will depend on things like Flintoff's batting form and how many overs he can bowl. What's for sure is that the extra pace of Flintoff could be vital if Steyn and Morkel are not going to have everything their own way next month.
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Post by Basil Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:37

It makes you glad that Fletcher is no longer in charge. He would try to make Broad an enforcer. Broad may well add the odd m.p.h. to his bowling speed as he fills out, but there's no way he could become an express.

That said, the last day of the first test was crying out for someone with a bit more pace to rought the batsmen up a bit.
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Post by Lara Lara Laughs Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:37

He's pretty spot on again.
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Post by LeFromage Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:54

I think it's a good article. I was thinking myself, on the last day, as Anderson was barely registering 82 mph and Sidebottom was late 70s and Broad was trying to bounce out Oram with medium-paced long hops, that we were very one-dimensional. When the sun's out, there's no-one in the attack with anything special up their sleeves.

But I think Fletcher's wrong to pin-point Broad as one who needs to push on to 90mph. It might well happen naturally, in time, but I think he's quick enough for the bowler he ought to be - the trouble is, England haven't yet recognised that he's basically a defensive, line and length McGrath/Clark type, and use him instead to try and bounce players out. Which is a bit of a waste, IMO.
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Post by Basil Tue 10 Jun 2008, 18:56

When Jimmy first played for England - he regularly got the ball down at 87/88 mph and still swung it - I wonder if his reduced pace is a legacy of Cooley's coaching.
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Post by LeFromage Tue 10 Jun 2008, 19:04

Basil wrote:When Jimmy first played for England - he regularly got the ball down at 87/88 mph and still swung it - I wonder if his reduced pace is a legacy of Cooley's coaching.

He still pops the odd one down at 90.

I think his pace is just like the rest of his bowling: weirdly erratic.

It's also a bit harsh to continually blame Troy Cooley for Anderson's slow development - he never got the chance to finish the job, so to speak, so we'll never know if the changes he was trying to make to Jammy would've paid off in the long run.

Still can't believe the ECB let him go...
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Post by Basil Tue 10 Jun 2008, 19:06

Dello wrote:
Basil wrote:When Jimmy first played for England - he regularly got the ball down at 87/88 mph and still swung it - I wonder if his reduced pace is a legacy of Cooley's coaching.

He still pops the odd one down at 90.

I think his pace is just like the rest of his bowling: weirdly erratic.

It's also a bit harsh to continually blame Troy Cooley for Anderson's slow development - he never got the chance to finish the job, so to speak, so we'll never know if the changes he was trying to make to Jammy would've paid off in the long run.

Still can't believe the ECB let him go...

I'm inclined to think Steve Harmison would agree with you.
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Post by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2008, 19:11

Broad really out to quicken up a bit in the next few years, though.

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Post by Basil Tue 10 Jun 2008, 19:12

Rob I wrote:Broad really out to quicken up a bit in the next few years, though.

I bet most of the Aussies said the same thing about Pidge when he was Broad's age - it might not happen.
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Post by furriner Tue 10 Jun 2008, 20:41

JKLever wrote:You can see his point. Although he took it to extremes after Ashes....
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/10/italian_uninterested_in_inflat.html...


What I found interesting was that in his entire write up he mentions Siders once.

After that performance.

Siders really would never have come within a million miles of this team if Fletcher was around.
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Post by PearlJ Tue 10 Jun 2008, 20:44

Basil wrote:
Rob I wrote:Broad really out to quicken up a bit in the next few years, though.

I bet most of the Aussies said the same thing about Pidge when he was Broad's age - it might not happen.

McGrath was a lot quicker at the same age.
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Post by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 20:52

McGrath was never that quick.
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Post by PearlJ Tue 10 Jun 2008, 21:01

JKLever wrote:McGrath was never that quick.

No. But he was definitely quicker than Broad.
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Post by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 21:07

Broad is consistently between 83-86mph.

I can't ever remember McGrath bowling 88+
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Post by PearlJ Tue 10 Jun 2008, 21:11

JKLever wrote:Broad is consistently between 83-86mph.

I can't ever remember McGrath bowling 88+

He struggles to hit 83 most of the time. McGrath could hit 85 regularly in his earlier days.
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Post by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 21:14

We're watching different Broads then PJ but since you always have the need to be right - knock yerself out cyclops
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Post by Big_Bad_Bob Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:44

Fletcher is a pillock.

Justifies all of his mistakes by, "ah - but this is why we did that, I was right really, not my fault it didn't work out."

You built the hegemony sunshine, you take the rap.

Ruined what would have been a considerable legacy and an even rosier reputation if he had not disappeared up his own ample behind during the course of his final 12-18 months in charge.
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Post by PeterCS Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:45

It wasn't his fault the Aussies got lucky.
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Post by PeterCS Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:48

For once, I think the Felthc might have a point re: need for pace, vs. almost exclusive belief in swing in helpful "English conditions". The overcast skies and heavy stmosphere can't last for long, and especially can't be wrapped up and taken to countries with baked, bouncy pitches.

The only trouble is the point is so farkin bleedin obvious, anyone could have made it. Felthc is a hack.


Last edited by PeterCS on Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:57; edited 1 time in total
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Post by JKLever Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:50

PeterCS wrote:For once, I think the Felthc might have a point re: need for pace, vs. almost exclusive belief in swing in helpful "English conditions". The overcast skies and heavy stmospher can't last for long, and especially can't be wrapped up adn taken to countries with baked, bouncy pitches.

The only trouble is the point is so farkin bleedin obvious anyone coudl have made it. Felthc is a hack.

I agree with his sentiments but he was picking players who had no control with it. *cough* Saj *cough*
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Post by Big_Bad_Bob Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:56

PeterCS wrote:For once, I think the Felthc might have a point re: need for pace, vs. almost exclusive belief in swing in helpful "English conditions". The overcast skies and heavy stmospher can't last for long, and especially can't be wrapped up adn taken to countries with baked, bouncy pitches.

The only trouble is the point is so farkin bleedin obvious anyone coudl have made it. Felthc is a hack.

Sidebottom would have had a magnificent series in Sri Lanka if there hadn't been the Sussex Cymbals clapping down the best part of a dozen chances that came his way from the poor old Ryan King.

If there was anyone you felt was a horses for courses pick for the conditions in which he was selected last spring it was Sidebum, but he's performed in every environment to which he has been asked to adapt so far.

Where art Fletch's super-speedsters Barmy Harmy, Saj FFS, and Kerplunk now we may ask?
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Post by Brass Monkey Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:56

Felcher wrote:It would be nice to see Stuart Broad, who has such exciting potential, to strengthen up so that he can touch 90mph. If he can do that and Andrew Flintoff returns, England are covering their bases. But if he's just going to bowl at 80-85mph, you're not going to get top-class sides out, and Broad is then reduced to doing the holding job. I'm just hoping that as he matures he will add a few mphs to the speedgun.

Wholeheartedly agree. It's so plain to see that bowlers with more solid frames usually whack it down a bit quicker. He does need to bulk up a bit.

Felcher wrote:
Having said that, it was fantastic to see the way Anderson bowled. Like Jones, he's a bowler who can get you five-fors, and the most pleasing aspect is the way he's learned to bowl the inswinger. He's a bowler who's willing to listen and learn and the way he set up Jacob Oram in the first innings showed how far he's come in the last few years. It irritates me when people say he was Troy Cooley's one failure as a bowling coach. We tried to change Jimmy's action because Troy, being the visionary he was, believed there was a chance of a serious back injury. I think it did confuse Jimmy a bit but what are you supposed to do as a coach if you spot the danger signs? Ignore them?

Utter boolsheet. He was Cooley's one failure. He was bowling pretty OK, then Cooley makes him bowl like Harmison, technically. Then he fractures his back. He comes back more of a dross weasel.
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Post by PeterCS Tue 10 Jun 2008, 22:57

Oi Lever Doubt!

He'll send Amir Khan out after you.
No point hiding behind the Pavilion in Chelmo, either. That's the first place he'll look.
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Post by LeFromage Tue 10 Jun 2008, 23:35

I did notice that he focused almost entirely on the bowling, with barely a mention of the shitehouse batting in his article.

Given the that the bowling was (along with some pretty decent catching, I felt) by and large a relative successes to be taken out of the series, seems like he could have used his article to dissect the shambles that is the batting.

Was always harder on the bowlers than the batsmen as a coach too...
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Post by Big_Bad_Bob Tue 10 Jun 2008, 23:46

It was pretty much all his own men still in the batting lineup though...like he was really going to have any criticism of them.

Criticism of them would have implied criticism of himself, and if there's one thing Uncy Duncy never was, it was wrong...at least in his own lofty ivory tower.
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