English cricket in ruins- What happened after the 05 Ashes?

Dishcush...

They didn't build on that success, they instead dined out on it.

Trescothick retired.

SA toured?

They won the Ashes (and a bunch of series building up to it) with a side lacking a spinner, a wicket-keeper and a middle-order batsman who wasn't Ian Bell.

Since then, they've lost an opener, a middle order batsman and three of their four fast bowlers.

And that's on top of the original deficiencies which they still haven't addressed. So those three problem areas have become eight problem areas.

It's been a fairly predictable demise. Instead of strengthening when they were strong, they rested on their laurels and now they're shit.

Dello wrote:They didn't build on that success, they instead dined out on it.

Add to that the buddy buddy bum chummy nature of the setup, and the fact they will not dump under-performers = English being gash!!

Dello wrote:They won the Ashes (and a bunch of series building up to it) with a side lacking a spinner, a wicket-keeper and a middle-order batsman who wasn't Ian Bell.

Since then, they've lost an opener, a middle order batsman and three of their four fast bowlers.

And that's on top of the original deficiencies which they still haven't addressed. So those three problem areas have become eight problem areas.

Well summed up, and yet we've only been gashed in 1 series really in that time which suggests if a few players can step up and produce a bit more than they are currently we can at least compete with the better sides (as we did with most of this match really)

You put a fit Simon Jones back in the current team and they would have won this test . . .

tac wrote:You put a fit Simon Jones back in the current team and they would have won this test . . .

well said Rudyard

Dello wrote:They won the Ashes (and a bunch of series building up to it) with a side lacking a spinner, a wicket-keeper and a middle-order batsman who wasn't Ian Bell.

Since then, they've lost an opener, a middle order batsman and three of their four fast bowlers.

And that's on top of the original deficiencies which they still haven't addressed.

That's exactly it.

tac wrote:You put a fit Simon Jones back in the current team and they would have won this test . . .

Simon Jones, whose reputation was built - and still remains built - on two and a half Tests' worth of bowling.

You might be interested to learn that, when playing for England A, Simon Jones was part of a bowling attack that allowed a team of Indian second XI players chase down over 503 to win (for the loss of just four wickets) on the final day of a FC match in the Duleep Trophy.

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/79/79129.html

13.5 overs (he went off injured...) for 0/89...

Whoever said the bit about dining out on the success instead of building on it was bang on.

The team were given the cheapest of Queen's honours, and feted as all-conquering heroes for effectively scraping home in a series that could have very easily gone the other way. An umpiring decsion here or there, one less cricket ball on the ground during a warm-up.

And the lesson don't seem to have been learned following the 5-0 spanking down under 15 months later.

Zat wrote:Whoever said the bit about dining out on the success instead of building on it was bang on.

The team were given the cheapest of Queen's honours, and feted as all-conquering heroes for effectively scraping home in a series that could have very easily gone the other way. An umpiring decsion here or there, one less cricket ball on the ground during a warm-up.

And the lesson don't seem to have been learned following the 5-0 spanking down under 15 months later.

Dunno. I look at it the other way.

Man for man they were nowhere near that Aussie side and had built up for 2 years, and then played out of their skins beat Aus for the first time in 16 years in a series. Maybe that was the pinnacle of their talent. Certainly a good few of those players haven't hit the same heights since.

Think you overestimate the importance of gongs really, but IMO they deserved the accolades. Didn't Aus get 2 tickertape homecomings in 1989 after just a 4 year absence without the urn?

Maybe they lost focus. Or maybe as I say, certain players in the team got the max out of their ability that series and couldn't get back to those heights....

JKLever wrote:

Zat wrote:Whoever said the bit about dining out on the success instead of building on it was bang on.

The team were given the cheapest of Queen's honours, and feted as all-conquering heroes for effectively scraping home in a series that could have very easily gone the other way. An umpiring decsion here or there, one less cricket ball on the ground during a warm-up.

And the lesson don't seem to have been learned following the 5-0 spanking down under 15 months later.

Dunno. I look at it the other way.

Man for man they were nowhere near that Aussie side and had built up for 2 years, and then played out of their skins beat Aus for the first time in 16 years in a series. Maybe that was the pinnacle of their talent. Certainly a good few of those players haven't hit the same heights since.

Think you overestimate the importance of gongs really, but IMO they deserved the accolades. Didn't Aus get 2 tickertape homecomings in 1989 after just a 4 year absence without the urn?

Maybe they lost focus. Or maybe as I say, certain players in the team got the max out of their ability that series and couldn't get back to those heights....

Then SA arrived?

taipan wrote:

Then SA arrived?

They lost the next series 2-0 to Pakistan.

in a series that could have very easily gone the other way.

Huh? But I thought we was smashed in '05

That's what a fair few poms on here where telling us for about 15 months after the win...

How about the domestic structure? because overall they have seriously underachieved since the late 60s.

M Yousuf complained that they play far far too much county cricket and after a while you stop enjoying the game.

Invader Zim wrote:

in a series that could have very easily gone the other way.

Huh? But I thought we was smashed in '05

That's what a fair few poms on here where telling us for about 15 months after the win...

2008?

Invader Zim wrote:

in a series that could have very easily gone the other way.

Huh? But I thought we was smashed in '05

That's what a fair few poms on here where telling us for about 15 months after the win...

Could've easily been 3-1.

FFS Zim, you were crying in a corner at Lunch on the first day of the series.

And some are still telling us

JKLever wrote:

Zat wrote:Whoever said the bit about dining out on the success instead of building on it was bang on.

The team were given the cheapest of Queen's honours, and feted as all-conquering heroes for effectively scraping home in a series that could have very easily gone the other way. An umpiring decsion here or there, one less cricket ball on the ground during a warm-up.

And the lesson don't seem to have been learned following the 5-0 spanking down under 15 months later.

Dunno. I look at it the other way.

Man for man they were nowhere near that Aussie side and had built up for 2 years, and then played out of their skins beat Aus for the first time in 16 years in a series. Maybe that was the pinnacle of their talent. Certainly a good few of those players haven't hit the same heights since.

Think you overestimate the importance of gongs really, but IMO they deserved the accolades. Didn't Aus get 2 tickertape homecomings in 1989 after just a 4 year absence without the urn?

Maybe they lost focus. Or maybe as I say, certain players in the team got the max out of their ability that series and couldn't get back to those heights....

In other words, English Cricket in general dined out on the success, instead of using it to go to the next level.

Zat wrote:
In other words, English Cricket in general dined out on the success, instead of using it to go to the next level.

Seriously doubt it had the talent outside of that XI to ever go to the next level.

Or the appetite to go dining beyond Fred's initial liquid banquet.

They got the best out of the players available for 18 months or so, which ended with the Ashes victory. Realistically England have two world-class players and the rest are ordinary, the team was better than the sum of its parts in 2004-05 but now is substantially less. Australia, India and South Africa are easily the top three sides in Test cricket, England are probably in the 4th-6th bracket and likely to stay there for the time being. We've gone backwards under Moores and an Australian coach would possibly improve the situation but there really isn't the quality to get to the next level.

I think a lot of this is Oh Lordy Drama Queenery. ...

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