English cricket in ruins- What happened after the 05 Ashes?

Too many teams is certainly an issue

In QE Azam trophy in Pakistan they have some 23 teams(all in the same tier) and the tournament goes on for many many months...

Very inefficient and poor system. Thankfully thought for the last 2 or 3 years they have introduced a pentangular cup which is a bit like the Duleep trophy in India how ever that plan took a big hit because of foreign teams not showing up to Pakistan.

i think the county system is the only domestic competition that attracts players who are happy to live their entire sporting lives within it and with no ambition to be international cricketers pretty early into their careers. no one who plays ranji, and i am pretty sure its same for most other domestic comps, plays ranji for the sake of playing ranji. everyone's goal is to finally get into the national team and play for the country. this pushes you a lot harder as you need to perform at exceptional levels to get there, just staying in the ranji team gives limited satisfaction

also the earning potential between a domestic player and an international player is HUGE, more than enough incentive to move up a level. if you dont want to play international cricket you usually give up playing for your state as well and get another job

Sans Souci wrote:Great English players come through in spite of the system and the mentality that is naturally in the air.

The cosy blanket created by central contracts and sponserships making young players rich who can go weeks at a time during an English summer without bowling a ball in anger is not conducive to creating hungry top class players. True enough, though, it's not stopping anyone coming through with that hard edged hunger but it doesn't help matters.

Central contracts have in general improved our cricket imo.

What leads to complacency is not producing enough quality cricketers despite having 18 first class counties. It's the system not some lack of a collective 'hunger' . The lack of a proper system is in a lot of our sports incliuding football at youth levels.

As I said before (and i'm not just saying it defensively) the 'hunger' thing is bollocks, I've watched plenty of backs to the wall efforts by England players over the years. The bottom line is the opposition have been different class.

Take our Cycling olympic team - they are the most professional team that has ever been seen (mentality wise) - and the system backs them up in such a way is opposite with cricket in this country.

How is the college/university cricket in England?

may be the counties can give a bit of money to the colleges so the colleges can offer scholarships for cricket and then pick the best talent from there.

University cricket is dead. There was time when Oxbridge regularly produced England cricketers, but it seems to be gone now. I suppose cricket has become more working-class in many respects.

PlanetPakistan wrote:How is the college/university cricket in England?

may be the counties can give a bit of money to the colleges so the colleges can offer scholarships for cricket and then pick the best talent from there.

The biggest problem is that cricket is not played in schools anymore.

JKLever wrote:

Sans Souci wrote:Great English players come through in spite of the system and the mentality that is naturally in the air.

The cosy blanket created by central contracts and sponserships making young players rich who can go weeks at a time during an English summer without bowling a ball in anger is not conducive to creating hungry top class players. True enough, though, it's not stopping anyone coming through with that hard edged hunger but it doesn't help matters.

Central contracts have in general improved our cricket imo.

What leads to complacency is not producing enough quality cricketers despite having 18 first class counties. It's the system not some lack of a collective 'hunger' . The lack of a proper system is in a lot of our sports incliuding football at youth levels.

As I said before (and i'm not just saying it defensively) the 'hunger' thing is bollocks, I've watched plenty of backs to the wall efforts by England players over the years. The bottom line is the opposition have been different class.

Take our Cycling olympic team - they are the most professional team that has ever been seen (mentality wise) - and the system backs them up in such a way is opposite with cricket in this country.

I take your points on board but I firmly believe in what I say about hunger and the mentality of the people. Coming where I come from, living where I do and where I have I believe I can make a good judgement on this. It's most certainly not bollocks and very valid.

But we can agree to disagree.

The West Indies would have never lost their position of primacy if they had a 1st class system 1/10 th as good as England's. West indian batsmen have to make do with 10 1st class innings a year.

The system is not to blame ..the psychology of the average English cricketer is.

That's a bit insightful.

Are you sure you've joined the right forum?

Feel like this coversation has been going on for the whole 15+ years I've followed English cricket. Re: schools- yeah would be nice if it was played more but not realistic in this day and age. There's still plenty of kids playing but they have to predominatly do it through their local clubs - sure if they're not in the right catchment area it's a real problem. All the same there's a decent number of talented kids playing and enjoying the game- it's what happens to them going from the lower reaches of youth and league cricket to county cricket and England selection that worries me. The whole shebang needs to be more competitive and focused and counties should be leading and setting the example but they reek of waste, greed and general fecklessness. Sets the tone for everyone.

So in conclusion Derbyshire should be destroyed. In fact if the whole city of Derby was nuked I wouldn't think it excessive in the cause of pour encourager les autres. Ok thousands would die and the general radiocactivity would be a bummer but if it rid us of future Ian Bells I think the sacrifice would be worthwhile.

Would the fallout reach as far as Warwickshire, though?

Sans Souci wrote: Coming where I come from, living where I do

So because you're an Aussie it gives you some sort of sense of 'being right' eh? . Aussie supposed sporting dominance over England has come off the back of Cricket & Swimming. Where were all those world class Aussie athletes whilst GB was producing them, where was the hunger then? Your rugby union team has been despatched 3 world cups running by England, obviously not by lacking hunger though.

Where is the Aussie hunger in their test team now? Oh wait, it's because the quality of player you have isn't what it was isn't it?

Can't believe there's been no takers for my homeless people/hot soup theory.

That would take the hunger question right out of the equation.

Aberforth wrote:
The system is not to blame ..the psychology of the average English cricketer is.

Was it to blame for winning 10 of the last 12 against the WI, prior to this game too? Exactly... it's bull.

Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super cricketer full of testosterone and anger.

Eric Air Emu wrote:Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super crickter full of testosterone and anger.

He'd be Matt Hayden you mean?

Eric Air Emu wrote:Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super crickter full of testosterone and anger.

Or die of cancer, withered and shriveled like an apple core left out in the sun.

It's a gamble...

He'd play and miss at the dose of radiation.

JKLever wrote:

Sans Souci wrote: Coming where I come from, living where I do

So because you're an Aussie it gives you some sort of sense of 'being right' eh? . Aussie supposed sporting dominance over England has come off the back of Cricket & Swimming. Where were all those world class Aussie athletes whilst GB was producing them, where was the hunger then? Your rugby union team has been despatched 3 world cups running by England, obviously not by lacking hunger though.

Where is the Aussie hunger in their test team now? Oh wait, it's because the quality of player you have isn't what it was isn't it?

I get the feeling that you are taking me out of context everytime on purpose as if I am poking fun or something when I am not. If thats the case then I can't be bothered.

As I said we don't agree and thats pretty much it. But I'm not rubbishing your views.

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super crickter full of testosterone and anger.

Or die of cancer, withered and shriveled like an apple core left out in the sun.

It's a gamble...

Or maybe just a little nip from a radioactive spider- a bit of spidey sense could work wonders once he's played himself in and is about to give it away. Or maybe he could come across a spaceship where a dying alien will give him a green power ring to police the galaxy- instead though he could use it to make a giant cricket bat when he goes out to bat. I could go on...

It's understandable that with an average of 23 posts per day there is going to be an awful lot of "bollocks" written.

JKLever wrote:

Aberforth wrote:
The system is not to blame ..the psychology of the average English cricketer is.

Was it to blame for winning 10 of the last 12 against the WI, prior to this game too? Exactly... it's bull.

Winning 10 of the last 12 against West Indies is nothing to write home about. West Indies have been in a free fall since England placed limitations on the amount of overseas players plying their trade in the 1st class game.

Eric Air Emu wrote:

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super crickter full of testosterone and anger.

Or die of cancer, withered and shriveled like an apple core left out in the sun.

It's a gamble...

Or maybe just a little nip from a radioactive spider- a bit of spidey sense could work wonders once he's played himself in and is about to give it away. Or maybe he could come across a spaceship where a dying alien will give him a green power ring to police the galaxy- instead though he could use it to make a giant cricket bat when he goes out to bat. I could go on...

What he needs is to become a multi-billionaire whose parents are murdered in front of him, and becomes driven by an insatiable rage for vengeance and rubber.

But I think we all know, he's a "Robin" in that scenario. Maybe even a "Batgirl"...

Sans Souci wrote:

JKLever wrote:

Sans Souci wrote: Coming where I come from, living where I do

So because you're an Aussie it gives you some sort of sense of 'being right' eh? . Aussie supposed sporting dominance over England has come off the back of Cricket & Swimming. Where were all those world class Aussie athletes whilst GB was producing them, where was the hunger then? Your rugby union team has been despatched 3 world cups running by England, obviously not by lacking hunger though.

Where is the Aussie hunger in their test team now? Oh wait, it's because the quality of player you have isn't what it was isn't it?

I get the feeling that you are taking me out of context everytime on purpose as if I am poking fun or something when I am not. If thats the case then I can't be bothered.

As I said we don't agree and thats pretty much it. But I'm not rubbishing your views.

No I agree when it comes to cricket we've got a great big soft belly. Our football for all it's fault is ferociously competitive at all levels, our Olympians are pretty dedicated, the rugby players seem pretty hard but when it comes to your average professional cricket it's training bra time. I mean really the county championship is like one long scrap over a sequined handbag. No commitment to excellence - just a day job where it's summer all year long. Grrrr...

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:

Dello wrote:

Eric Air Emu wrote:Maybe if we subjected Ian Bell to a huge dose of radiation he would mutate into some sort of Incredible Hulk style super crickter full of testosterone and anger.

Or die of cancer, withered and shriveled like an apple core left out in the sun.

It's a gamble...

Or maybe just a little nip from a radioactive spider- a bit of spidey sense could work wonders once he's played himself in and is about to give it away. Or maybe he could come across a spaceship where a dying alien will give him a green power ring to police the galaxy- instead though he could use it to make a giant cricket bat when he goes out to bat. I could go on...

What he needs is to become a multi-billionaire whose parents are murdered in front of him, and becomes driven by an insatiable rage for vengeance and rubber.

But I think we all know, he's a "Robin" in that scenario. Maybe even a "Batgirl"...

If he was Batgirl could we shoot him in the spine paralysing him and then take naked pictures of him?