Have Australia slid further than expected?

Everyone knew they would come back to the pack after the retirements of Warne, Mcgrath, and Gilchrist. But did anyone expect them to fall this far this quickly?

Tricky.

Yes, yes to the question in the title and no, no to the question in the post.

Now let me have my peace.

This far, this quickly? FFS, they weren't beaten by Zimbabwe. It was the #2 team.

They've been basically thrashed by India and South Africa in the last 2 months.

Mick Sawyer wrote:This far, this quickly? FFS, they weren't beaten by Zimbabwe. It was the #2 team.

You forget daylight.

Well they havent played Zimbabwe...

Henry wrote:Everyone knew they would come back to the pack after the retirements of Warne, Mcgrath, and Gilchrist. But did anyone expect them to fall this far this quickly?

Said they would come crashing down and recalled saying their slide would be exposed after they tour India. Still I reckon many Aussies still thought back then that barring India, they would still be good enough for a couple of years and would still do very well at home......

Batman wrote:
Said they would come crashing down and recalled saying their slide would be exposed after they tour India. Still I reckon many Aussies still thought back then that barring India, they would still be good enough for a couple of years and would still do very well at home......

True dat. Also expected to get more out of MacDill to bide more time to develop a spin option at Shield level.

Henry wrote:They've been basically thrashed by India and South Africa in the last 2 months.

That's crap.

In both these tests against South Africa the Proteas have ended up winning comfortably. But Australia were on top for long periods of both matches.

In India Australia were the better side in the first test but couldn't put India away.

Australia lost the second test by an innings. That was an unmitigated disaster. But we lost by an innings in Calcutta in 1998 when we were supposedly the best team in the world.

I'm not saying everything's fine and rosy. It looks like Australia is only the third best team in the world. Australia had to fall off the perch one day, but they haven't started sliding down the ladder at rapid pace.

This is the first home series loss in 16 years FFS. It's been two years since Warne and McGrath retired, so it hasn't happened overnight.

Cheers.

Hass,

It hurts and will get worse ... so just ride the blows!
Claiming domination for certain sessions or fractions of a test match doesn't cut the mustard.
England dominated India convincingly for 11 sessions in Chennai - and lost the match in just over 3 !!

The emphatic win margins and consumate ease with which the Saffers have crushed Australia over these past 2 weeks does not bode well for your lot ... and I reckon things are going to get a shed lot worse before they even remotely begin to pick up.
Like I said - ride the blows ... portions of test match domination don't mean diddly squat when your arse is being handed to you !!

Of course winning mere portions of a mere test match means diddly squat.

But it does help assess how far you have "slid".

Australian teams of yore seized the initiative during crucial moments - this team flopped during the crucial moments.

This series makes me think of the 1997 Australian tour of South Africa. Australia won the first test by an innings and pulled off a great comeback to win the second test.

That series confirmed Australia's position as the best team in the world, but it didn't mean South Africa were shot ducks. They were still the second best team in the world and a very talented side.

This series loss seems more dramatic because it marks the end of an empire - but it's no worse than countless other losses that other sides have experienced over the years.

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Australia - the Moral Victors of the series.

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Does having your arse handed to you twice in succession (and 4 times out of 6 immediate past Tests) rate as just "occasionally" ?

Merlin wrote:

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Does having your arse handed to you twice in succession (and 4 times out of 6 immediate past Tests) rate as just "occasionally" ?

Of those 4 losses, Aust were in winning or at least upper hand positions in 3 of them. The problem has alternated between been cleaning up the tail and taking second innings wickets, which is a pretty weird problem to explain.

Merlin wrote:

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Does having your arse handed to you twice in succession (and 4 times out of 6 immediate past Tests) rate as just "occasionally" ?

We did beat New Zealand in between (I know, I know, but a win's a win).

I don't think anyone really expected to win in India - we struggled there when we had a side of all-time greats.

I'm just asking for some perspective.

This is the first, that's right, the first home series loss in 16 years. It ain't the end of the world... yet.

This is funny. The poms are getting more excited about it than us saffies.

I think they've been very unimpressive. England probably gave the Saffers a slightly better run for their money than this and could so easily have tied or even won that series but for a few poor Umpiring decisions. Australia, though they've been on top at times, have not let games slip merely but let them flood away over short spaces of time. Their batting looks fragile with only Ponting in form, and it's hard to see them getting 20 wickets whatsoever against a good batting side. I think that's the worst thing. Their batting has some strength with the likes of Rogers, Jaques, Marsh and Hughes all competing for Hayden's spot, then with Hussey, Pomersbach, et cetera, all capable of coming into the middle order, but where are Australia going to take twenty wickets on decent pitches at the moment?

Siddle looks like an honest enough bowler, but I don't see him as a long-termer. Lee's shot, Mitch is improving but it's yet to be seen whether he shall improve enough and/or have any sort of longevity to his performances. Hauritz has done alright in fairness, considering how rubbish he is. But where's all the bowlers gone?

I like to think it's karma :D.

Augustus wrote:I think they've been very unimpressive. England probably gave the Saffers a slightly better run for their money than this and could so easily have tied or even won that series but for a few poor Umpiring decisions.

Yep, it's always the umpire's fault.

I tend to agree with Hass - the problems are not terminal. What is worrying is the panic (and general brainlessness) from the NSP and the continuing poor captaincy of Ricky Ponting. Until those are fixed we will continue to struggle against good sides that we can't just blow away.

On the positives, this series alone has seen the emergence of Siddle as a bowler with real promise, the consolidation of Midge as our No 1 quick, Brad Haddin taking the next step in his test career, Katich and Clarke's continuing consistency and Ponting's return to batting form.

The spinner merry go round and the negligible contribution of Hayden, Hussey, Lee and Symonds have been worries but the latter are all players nearing the end of their careers.

Augustus wrote:

Siddle looks like an honest enough bowler, but I don't see him as a long-termer. Lee's shot, Mitch is improving but it's yet to be seen whether he shall improve enough and/or have any sort of longevity to his performances. Hauritz has done alright in fairness, considering how rubbish he is. But where's all the bowlers gone?

I like to think it's karma .

Huh? There's a lot to like. Pace, bounce, some swing, aggression. He's only played 15 FC matches so is still learning the art of bowling, particularly back to back to back spells and matches. If he stays fit, he'll be good. I admit that the NSP got his selection right.

JGK wrote:

Merlin wrote:

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Does having your arse handed to you twice in succession (and 4 times out of 6 immediate past Tests) rate as just "occasionally" ?

Of those 4 losses, Aust were in winning or at least upper hand positions in 3 of them. The problem has alternated between been cleaning up the tail and taking second innings wickets, which is a pretty weird problem to explain.

JGK, upper position in 3 of the 4 losses? Can't think you had any upper position even once at Perth or Mohali. Even at Nagpur, you just had a whisker of chance of getting on top.

So which three were you in top position?

Henry wrote:Everyone knew they would come back to the pack after the retirements of Warne, Mcgrath, and Gilchrist. But did anyone expect them to fall this far this quickly?

the Empire was crumbling .. they used insidious means to win at Sydney and baited Harbhajan. But when that plan did not completely fructify, the will and means to fight back was lost.

And the credit for creating that breach in the wall goes to India. Esp that famous nine over spell by I.Sharma.

Nagpur, Perth (v Safs) and MCG.

Hass wrote:

Merlin wrote:

Coming back to the pack isn't just a figure of speech. When you come back to the pack you run the risk of getting your arse handed to you occasionally.

Does having your arse handed to you twice in succession (and 4 times out of 6 immediate past Tests) rate as just "occasionally" ?

We did beat New Zealand in between (I know, I know, but a win's a win).

I don't think anyone really expected to win in India - we struggled there when we had a side of all-time greats.

I'm just asking for some perspective.

This is the first, that's right, the first home series loss in 16 years. It ain't the end of the world... yet.

Hass, don't become a flying Potato yet again...............

I must admit I had my suspicions about this Australian sides future when they were 17/5 against a West Indies attack without Jerome Taylor.

They got away with that because their batting is still decent and our batting is so terrible, but I thought that better sides than us would exploit these new weaknesses and they clearly have.