Re: The Indian Cricket thread

[HH_pink]

Example of the Numbers game I am talking about: Cannot see how Tendulkar is still holding a test spot at the crucial No #4 position. Based on stats I have seen sometime ago he is averaging less than 30 once you take out the Minnows bashing.

Then we have Ganguly who actually has played some classy knocks against top teams since his mistreatment by Greg Chappell. But he continues to have fitness issues. After 5 matches or so he is unavailable due to some problem or other not to mention the liability he is on the field.

And then Tendulkar who cannot throw from the deep.

India don't need to find ways to accomodate this earlier generation with all these limitations. We have a great pool of players which is being proven time and again. No point saying we have no replacements if we never ever give them a fair go.

I have been big supporter of Sachin, Dravid & Gangs at various points in their career, but it time to move, actually it has been over 2-3 years overdue IMO.

A bit overboard there.

[HH_pink]

Mukul Kesavan

LOL. Read through the comments and you'll find of couple more lolly compositions - esp. liked the one which went:
.
.
.... for the readers,
Who don't give a ****.

[SG]

all that he said was that it was time the senior cricketers upped their game a bit

If thats what he meant then I don't think he is watching India's matches.

What do you mean by upping your game? 'nuff has been said about Tendulkar, he is our most consistent bat in ODIs after WC'07. Ganguly too has played some important innings in Eng and in Chandigarh ODI.

As for Dravid, yep, he hasn't done much in this series, but he didn't do too badly in Eng ODI series. You don't castigate a player of his class on the basis of 2-3 failures.

And it isn't as if young guns are exactly setting everything onto fire apart from that Twenty20 thing, which anyway isn't the regular format of the game.

[HH_pink]

True. But those comments came from the chief selector at a time when India were on a losing spree, and all I'm saying is when the team's performing badly, it is not unreasonable to expect the seniors, esp three former captains, to take on far more responsibility than the younger players in trying to reverse the team's fortunes.

[doremi]

Tendulkar can't throw from the deep? He has one of the best arms in the team, that after all those injuries.

[HH_pink]

Tendulkar can't throw from the deep? He has one of the best arms in the team, that after all those injuries.

Oh yeah, I missed out on that point. Josh bhai, Tendulkar has always been one of our best throwers.

[SG]

Tendulkar can't throw from the deep? He has one of the best arms in the team, that after all those injuries.

If Josh is saying this, there must be some truth in it.

[SG]

And he also says that Ganguly gets injured after every 5th match.

I saw him playing 3-months Ire/Eng tour without any injury, one of the toughest thing to do.

Josh might be seeing different team.

[Josh Carney]

Tendulkar can't throw from the deep? He has one of the best arms in the team, that after all those injuries.

Oh yeah, I missed out on that point. Josh bhai, Tendulkar has always been one of our best throwers.

After he had some trouble with his tennis elbow or shoulder or something (what ever caused him to miss that away WI test series we won) management came out with a statement that we need to protect his throwing arm and hence he could not be put in the deep. It was that way for a while not sure if it has changed.

[doremi]

Not anymore, because he's been fielding in the deep recently.

[SG]

Have a look at the list of players Josh doesn't want in Indian team,

1) Tendulkar

2) Dhoni

3) Ganguly

4) Yuvraj

5) Pathan

6) Bhajji

6) Anyone else who bats/bowls with agression

Now have a look at the list of players Josh wants in Indian team,

1) Kaif

2) Bangar

3) Chopra

4) Raina

5) Anyone else who bats/bowls dourly and has as little talent as possible.

[Chandan]

imo the time is right for sachin, saurav and rahul to retire from ODIs. yes, they're still getting the runs but the big innings of which they were capable between 96 and 04 have dried up now. the main men are now yuvraj and dhoni. rohit sharma looks as if he has genuine class. tiwary is very highly rated. they should be in the side, developing as players, not rotting on the bench. if you cant play on until the world cup then you may as well make way.

sehwag
gambhir
badrinath
raina
yuvraj
dhoni
karthik
sharma
uthappa
tiwary
kaif...

theres enough batsmen there to push for the odi side

on another note, parthiv patel has scored something like 6 centuries in his last 6 matches and is being talked up as a specialist batsman....if karthik can, then why not patel (always been a better batsman)

So Ash,

Are the youngsters ready? I agree with you that seniors (do we have to use this term?) should be rested. But what were the juniors doing in this match??

Gambhir just cannot score against decent oppositions. So forget him. Apart from him, I'm ready to accept all the players you've mentioned, even Raina.

[Ash]

imo the time is right for sachin, saurav and rahul to retire from ODIs. yes, they're still getting the runs but the big innings of which they were capable between 96 and 04 have dried up now. the main men are now yuvraj and dhoni. rohit sharma looks as if he has genuine class. tiwary is very highly rated. they should be in the side, developing as players, not rotting on the bench. if you cant play on until the world cup then you may as well make way.

sehwag
gambhir
badrinath
raina
yuvraj
dhoni
karthik
sharma
uthappa
tiwary
kaif...

theres enough batsmen there to push for the odi side

on another note, parthiv patel has scored something like 6 centuries in his last 6 matches and is being talked up as a specialist batsman....if karthik can, then why not patel (always been a better batsman)

So Ash,

Are the youngsters ready? I agree with you that seniors (do we have to use this term?) should be rested. But what were the juniors doing in this match??

Gambhir just cannot score against decent oppositions. So forget him. Apart from him, I'm ready to accept all the players you've mentioned, even Raina.

are they ready? only one way to find out chandan.

yeah the 'juniors' didnt do well in this match but didnt dravid and ganguly get out for a duck?

ive never been convinced by gambhir but i think being our top scorer in the t20 should buy him some more time. theres definite talent there, hes one of those players if he can start well and get past 20 then he will stick around.

all im saying is, if were going to lose at least go down trying to rebuild.

[doremi]

Mukul Kesavan-No one wrote to the colonel

[doremi]

What to do with the Big Three?

I think I may start to agree about the dropping of the Three, but not because they're not performing and there are more worthy candidates, as Josh says, or rebuilding, as Ash says, but because it's sickeningly embarassing how dependent we are on them to perform day in, day out. In England, the only matches we won were the ones where Sachin-Sourav made 100 run stands, here the only one we won they made a 91 run stand. Today, after we lost Ganguly and Dravid to consequtive balls, note that something very similar happened in the 2nd ODI to the Aussies, we surrendered toothlessly except for Tendulkar and tail-end slogging. No one, absolutely no one steps up to be counted. Yuvraj is happy with flashing outside off-stump after he had played and missed a couple, Uthappa keeps shuffling around trying to slog the daylights out of every ball, Dhoni was a bit unlucky but still could have done with better shot selection. The point is, when given the chances, very few have the guts to take the responsibility.

And as far as losing this series is concerned, we haven't yet, but let's not be too surprised if we do as the Aussies are a superior ODI side to us.

[The One]

india's policy should be pretty simple (and one followed by every other team) - put the best possible xi on the field. we arent even good enough to rest the seniors for matches against west indies and england, forget australia and south africa. the young guns over the last 6-7 years have not stepped up to the next level despite numerous chances (maybe yuvraj for a year or so). this is extremely worrying and we have some serious problems

[HH_pink]

What to do with the Big Three?

For once, a sensible article on cricinfo that doesn't blindly feed the mass sentiment.

Building for the future should not necessarily mean disregarding the
present, and nor should age be the overriding factor in the selection
of the team. If Tendulkar must be replaced, he must be replaced by a
man worthy of his shoes - he remains a considerable batsman even in his
obvious decline.

[doremi]

Brought to earth with a bang

Vasu with another good article.

[Josh Carney]

The Indian T-20 had it been send to the 50-50 WC would have atleast taken the team a lot further than that rubbish outfit we sent. Wonder how many Indian fans would see it the other way.

Using runs against WI at home and against a third string English attack (still lost the series) is no compensation for not performng in key matches against the top opposition. The way our top men were found out in SA and in the WC cannot be hidden by the minnows bashing. The emotional fans and journos play the numbers game and try to do so, but we need to look pas the facade.

Time to move on.

That said I feel sorry for Dravid. The regional politics stitched him up and he looks very lost now despite my take that looks the best placed of the three in terms of longevity.

[Ash]

good balanced articles by bal and vasu. its a tricky one and playing australia doesnt help matters!

one other point i want to make is that often a team can be greater than the sum of its parts. theres no denying that the t20 side - in its few appearances - looked a more cohesive unit than the ODI side that played in england. there was greater team spirit and a willingness to fight for each other imo. and the fielding aspect cant be ignored.

often it takes the absence of the big, star players for the other team members to start expressing themselves fully and taking on more responsibility. take arsenal for instance. without thierry henry (still a great player, maybe just past his best) the side just looks better - players are stepping up realising that they are the future and that they now carry the responsibility.

also, as the cliche goes its better to retire when ppl ask you why rather than why not. all 3 are undeniably past their best. there are talented youngsters waiting their turn. would it not make sense to go now (and prolong their test careers at the same time) whilst they still belong at this level rather than be kicked out in a yr or two?

[Josh Carney]

one other point i want to make is that often a team can be greater than the sum of its parts. theres no denying that the t20 side - in its few appearances - looked a more cohesive unit than the ODI side that played in england. there was greater team spirit and a willingness to fight for each other imo. and the fielding aspect cant be ignored.

often it takes the absence of the big, star players for the other team members to start expressing themselves fully and taking on more responsibility. take arsenal for instance. without thierry henry (still a great player, maybe just past his best) the side just looks better - players are stepping up realising that they are the future and that they now carry the responsibility.

Mate I am impressed, good insight there. Have you changed your diet ?

[Ash]

my posts are always insightful. maybe you have changed your diet

[HH_pink]

He wants to drop by your place tonight ...

[Josh Carney]

He wants to drop by your place tonight ...

Is that to cook the new "diet" ?

[HH_pink]

Yeah, if you prefer putting it that way.

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