The Indian Cricket thread

[doremi]

Ganguly speaks

[doremi]

Mukul Kesavan

[doremi]

That you Nath, down there with the comments?

[Chandan]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071010/asp/sports/story_8417615.asp
Sachin speaks :Performance, not age should be the criterion

[SG]

Vengsarkar has spoken like a man who is corrupted by power.

Shah has already hinted that he spoke to him and asked him not to speak gibberish in media, but the question is who'll ask Shah not to speak nonsense at every possible opportunity.

[Chandan]

The whole BCCI is a pack of idiots and media, especially the electronic one, is fighting to be superior to them in that department!!

[SG]

As Ganguly says Indian public (so called cricket fans) are indeed very fickle. They'll praise you no end on a fine day in the field, but lynch you on a bad day.

Tendulkar was India's best run scorer in last 3/4 ODI series India played. And people want him out of the team in favour of whom, Gambhirs, Rainas?

[doremi]

Shah has to shut up, he really does. Nothing annoys me more nowadays than him being a kabab mein haddi in every damn thing. Keep out of things you don't have the slightest idea about Mr. Shah.

[SG]

One more thing we got to do as early as possible is to throw this Twenty20 thing out of our systems.

We've already seen how badly Pak team is being affected by this bug in their test series against SA. Their batsmen are seem to be still playing in Twenty20 mode, save probably Shoaib Malik. You can't even compete in test cricket by batting like Pak bats did yesterday.

We're quite fortunate that we're not playing a test series straight after Twenty20 WC.

[Josh Carney]

What Vengsarkar said is very valid. However my suspicions are that he did not really believe in what he was saying. It was more for public consumption to help fend away some of those awkward press queries. Those very press conferences where Vengsarkar is at much ease as a gloveless wicket keeper would be, standing up to Akthar. Let us not forget that these very same senior players have not that long ago helped Mrs Vengsarkar open her jewellery shops with great fan fare.

The inability of the average Indian fan to let go bygone heroes is a huge impediment when working towards a consistently classy and winning team.

These repeated efforts to give some of these old men so much more rope than other deserving youngsters and then playing the numbers game to justify their ongoing selection to me is one of the top 5 problems plaguing Indian Cricket.

[Josh Carney]

Very intriguing or downright amusing is how the same Dilipji who was celebrated as a hero for bringing back these old man back is now being viewed as a villian by these hysterical fans.

[SG]

Who is playing the numbers?

Wasn't Tendulkar India's best scorer in last 3/4 ODI series?

Can you read?

You want seniors to be dropped just because a bunch of boys have won a hit and giggle tourney, which is not even half the duration and no. of overs cricket's 2 traditional forms of the game are played.

Yep, good logic.

[doremi]

Munaf Patel
Munaf the good and Munaf the bad both played this match. In the first innings he was clearly holding back, just running in and putting the ball in. In the second, he knocked over Mumbai. Where does he stand now? Nobody knows. What is wrong with him? He only knows. But if he is not completely fit, as the selectors probably believe, he will do well to get fit, play more domestic cricket, bowl more spells like in the second innings, and get rid of Munaf the bad. Because when he is good, he is just too good.

So true.

The best from the Rest

[doremi]

TBF, Vengubhai's comments related to everyone and not just the seniors. That 'twist' was given by our nice media.

[SG]

Very intriguing or downright amusing is how the same Dilipji who was celebrated as a hero for bringing back these old man back is now being viewed as a villian by these hysterical fans.

Atleast I never revered or hated him. Its you who has some sort of agenda against him for not selecting/dropping your heroes/gods like Bangar, Chopra, Gambhir, Raina, to name just a few. I remember you using select words to describe him, noone else did that, neither here nor at C4.

BTW, its pointless arguing with you, as the man who matters most has shut everyone up by his straight talk on this matter.

[SG]

Vengubhai's comments related to everyone and not just the seniors. That 'twist' was given by our nice media.

But atleast Josh would love him from now on.

[SG]

then playing the numbers game to justify their ongoing selection to me is one of the top 5 problems plaguing Indian Cricket.

Yep, since statistically they're way superior than youngsters, stats are useless. Had they been found wanting statistically, stats would've been so good.

[SG]

Whatmore to join National Cricket Academy

Renowned coach Dav Whatmore has accepted a job with India's cricket academy four months after being snubbed for the post of the national team's head coach.

The former Australian Test batsman, 53, will take over as director of operations at the Bangalore-based National Cricket Academy later this month, the academy's newly-appointed chairman Ravi Shastri said on Wednesday.

"I am glad to have Whatmore on board because he is one of the best in the business," said Shastri, an ex-India captain and noted television commentator.

"It did not take me long to realise there's value in being associated with it," Whatmore was quoted as saying in the local media.

"I can give something. I've known Ravi (Shastri) for a number of years. We understand each other well and I'm looking forward to a formal association with him."

[Chandan]

End the hysterics
Hindustan Times
October 10, 2007
First Published: 02:23 IST(10/10/2007)
Last Updated: 02:54 IST(10/10/2007)

Hysteria seems to have become our national motto. One victory and we forget our weaknesses. One defeat and we forget our strengths. We just seem to be losing our balance, getting swayed too much by one result.

First, let us take T20 out of our system. Great as it has been, let us move ahead and face the real world. Australia are the world champions not because of fluke wins but because they have consistently performed at a level few teams have ever done, barring the West Indians of the late 70s and 80s. They are the better side and let us not fool ourselves.

Yes, the Indian side can run them close and who knows even beat them more often. Yes, they have a young bunch that does look very talented, enthusiastic and is willing to handle pressure.

But does that mean we forget the contribution made by the three pillars of Indian cricket — Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly? Does that mean we forget that, only last month, before we embarked on our T20 mission, we were celebrating Tendulkar, Ganguly and Dravid's contribution in England, and before that in Ireland, where India beat South Africa in an ODI series for the first time outside India?

We have got so swayed by our T20 win that we suddenly forgot that the 50-50 format is vastly different and requires far more skills than just being fearless, youthful and full of potential talent. And when Australia walloped us in the first two one-dayers, suddenly everyone was baying for the blood of The Oldies. Perhaps forgetting that the youngsters have to be equally responsible for our defeats and also forgetting that beating Australia is never going to be easy for a team like India.

More than the media, especially the electronic media, what is more disappointing is the way the Indian cricket establishment reacts these days. The chairman of the selection committee, Dilip Vengsarkar, reacts like a TV anchor and not like someone who should know and be more responsible in what he says. Almost every second day we have

Vengsarkar in an ‘exclusive’ interview berating his team. Not done, especially in public, and that too when a series is on and that too against the world's best side.

The less said about the BCCI secretary, Niranjan Shah, the better. His individual wisdom seems to be better than the collective might of all the present and past international cricketers.

Let us all take a deep breath and pause for a while. Be happy that the series is still alive, thanks to a collective team effort in which the ‘Oldies’ at the top have done their mite to help India win.

But please, let not another defeat, a failure, make us raise our shrill voices and start the blame game again. Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly are precious. They may be in the twilight of their careers and are unlikely to be there for long, especially in the shortened version of the game. But as long as they are performing, contributing, please let them breathe.

Mr Vengsarkar, do plan for the future, by all means. But show more grace and dignity towards people who have been, and still are, India’s most outstanding players of all time.

[Ash]

imo the time is right for sachin, saurav and rahul to retire from ODIs. yes, they're still getting the runs but the big innings of which they were capable between 96 and 04 have dried up now. the main men are now yuvraj and dhoni. rohit sharma looks as if he has genuine class. tiwary is very highly rated. they should be in the side, developing as players, not rotting on the bench. if you cant play on until the world cup then you may as well make way.

sehwag
gambhir
badrinath
raina
yuvraj
dhoni
karthik
sharma
uthappa
tiwary
kaif...

theres enough batsmen there to push for the odi side

on another note, parthiv patel has scored something like 6 centuries in his last 6 matches and is being talked up as a specialist batsman....if karthik can, then why not patel (always been a better batsman)

[furriner]

I can't help but say this:

Only Sachin decide when Sachin retire.

[doremi]

Well, yeah they need to make way, but lets not go all shock and awe on everything. There's still plenty of time to do it practically and gracefully. The first step of identifying the leaders of the next generation has already been taken. And it's not going to be long before the three retire from ODIs.

[Josh Carney]

imo the time is right for sachin, saurav and rahul to retire from ODIs. yes, they're still getting the runs but the big innings of which they were capable between 96 and 04 have dried up now. the main men are now yuvraj and dhoni. rohit sharma looks as if he has genuine class. tiwary is very highly rated. they should be in the side, developing as players, not rotting on the bench. if you cant play on until the world cup then you may as well make way.

sehwag
gambhir
badrinath
raina
yuvraj
dhoni
karthik
sharma
uthappa
tiwary
kaif...

theres enough batsmen there to push for the odi side

on another note, parthiv patel has scored something like 6 centuries in his last 6 matches and is being talked up as a specialist batsman....if karthik can, then why not patel (always been a better batsman)

Indeed Ash. The problem I see is that some of our fans and journos get so emotionally attached to specific players that they lose the plot about what we are trying to achieve.
Also important to mention is the extra edge your list of the younger generation will give both fielding and team attitude wise.

[Josh Carney]

Example of the Numbers game I am talking about: Cannot see how Tendulkar is still holding a test spot at the crucial No #4 position. Based on stats I have seen sometime ago he is averaging less than 30 once you take out the Minnows bashing.

Then we have Ganguly who actually has played some classy knocks against top teams since his mistreatment by Greg Chappell. But he continues to have fitness issues. After 5 matches or so he is unavailable due to some problem or other not to mention the liability he is on the field.

And then Tendulkar who cannot throw from the deep.

India don't need to find ways to accomodate this earlier generation with all these limitations. We have a great pool of players which is being proven time and again. No point saying we have no replacements if we never ever give them a fair go.

I have been big supporter of Sachin, Dravid & Gangs at various points in their career, but it time to move, actually it has been over 2-3 years overdue IMO.

[HH_pink]

Vengsarkar has spoken like a man who is corrupted by power.

Shah has already hinted that he spoke to him and asked him not to speak gibberish in media, but the question is who'll ask Shah not to speak nonsense at every possible opportunity.

What? What exactly did Vengsarkar say? From what I could gather from the reports on cricinfo, all that he said was that it was time the senior cricketers upped their game a bit, because there were others, youngsters, who were waiting in the wings.

What's wrong with that? So the seniors *shouldn't* be trying to secure victories for India? Yeah, the argument that it's all about performance and not age is perfectly sound and all, but it's perfectly reasonable and only natural to expect that the seniors take on greater responsibilities compared to the younger members of the team. If you have a certain performace quotient working for all the players, with all the noise and fluctuations that one would expect, a drop in performance by the senior players ought to be taken more seriously. A bit like how the captain is always expected to play a big part and lead from the front and sh!t like that. Age should not be a criterion for kicking someone out, true, but all other things and criteria being equal, the senior players should expect that they'd be the first ones to be booted out, with an eye on the future. So, they should really be performing at a level higher - and consider the younger players to be their understudies.

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