Re: Breaking news for next test

by Red Tue 12 Mar 2013, 08:13

SG wrote:lol, got this from somewhere,

Eng : text and get into trouble
Aus : don't text and get into trouble
Ashes - to text or not to text!

Well has has been suggested elsewhere, test cricketers either get sacked for texting or not texting South Africans.

Twitter also hinted that Mitch Johnson actually did complete his homework but he strayed the delivery to Arthur. Smile

by skully Tue 12 Mar 2013, 08:14

Henry wrote:Peter Moores tried to implement all kinds of things like this and the captain at the time, KP, thought it was complete crap. Both were ousted in a very public (thanks to ECB leaks) spat.

I'm not sure if Arthur will survive this, but I don't think it's entirely his fault.

Howard said today Arthur's contract is being extended.

by Big Dog Tue 12 Mar 2013, 08:15

Red wrote:So the rumblings hinted at last night seem to be true.

According to Seven news tonight the team culture is poisonous and the Clarke/Watto relationship has been severely strained for months.

Pat Howard is now saying that there have been repeated breaches of discipline and that these will remain in-house.

Several luminaries suggested to the Argus Report that having both coach and captain as selector and it's hard not to imagine that this doesn't at times put them into a position of conflict.

The Hussey rumours have persisted and according to Seven news there is a chasm in the Aussie camp and Clarke's leadership is now under pressure. The fact that Arthur says he is prepared to work with the Mohali mob again doesn't augur well for smooth waters in the future.

As for reviews, can't see anything wrong with them per se but wonder if the consequences were spelt out to them before the infractions. Agree with Clarke's stance on standards and repercussions and after all the players had the time to complete the appraisals but undoubtedly these are recidivists otherwise the punishment doesn't necessarily reflect the crime and it penalises the whole team. In my line of work we complete annual review which also involve periodic meetings to chart progress. In reality these are a distraction from our main tasks but they do force us to reflect and be introspective regarding our performances.

Peter Lalor was interviewed on radio in the early hours of this morning and made the point that Watson had some choice words to say about Aussie cricket at the team hotel within earshot of the journos after the press conference. His fractured relationship with certain teammates might be difficult to mend. He was highly chastened at rocking up to ask for leave for the fourth test only to be given the bad news by Arthur. According to Lalor the journos had been tipped off that the Mohali mob had been complicit in not competing the Wellness Charts but he admitted that Ussie was a repeat offender in this regard for whatever reason. Maybe the fact that Watto seemed to think he had carte blanche to put in his orders re. opening, bowling etc. suggested that he felt he had a power base within the team structure and maybe he was given too much rope which also suggests that Clarke's authority has been undermined hence the drawing of the line in the sand.

The hated Chappelli has spoken on radio in respect of this issue. He's surprised that it's come to us and thinks they need a case or two of beer and a closed shop meeting to air issues. He believes that there are too many chiefs with many having input to justify their positions. He also thinks that Clarke should court those willing to argue with him because he welcomed contrary views and felt that these sort of guys would be the type to take it up to the opposition and fight in the trenches so to speak. He's also pissed off that there are guys who are ordinary players who are getting preferential treatment by kow towing to those in power and just because they are good at filling in forms. He thought that Mohali offered our quicks the best chance because Delhi will be another spinning track.

At least Cowan no longer has to look over his shoulder for Watson.

In this case Chapelli is 100% correct.

by skully Tue 12 Mar 2013, 08:16

doremi wrote:I still think the punishment is too harsh. But seeing Watson's reaction, it may well have been necessary. I guess the schoolgirl tag is pretty apt.

I agree, but allegedly the importance of the task was made clear to all players.

Big Dog wrote:
skully wrote:
Big Dog wrote:
skully wrote:
doremi wrote:Well, atleast Pattinson seems to have a sensible head on his shoulders.
Aye, good to see Patto come out and cop it sweet. Let's see what Twatto does in the coming weeks.

What you mean is that Patto is covering his @rse to ensure his future. Can't blame him but its still pathetic. If it was still the days of semi professional cricket, someone would have punched Arthurs lights out by now.
You hit the nail on the head there, BD. It is a fully professional game, and players need to act fully professionally.

But the game has gone downhill since then.

Combination of retirement of many greats, and apparent* ill-discipline.

by taipan Tue 12 Mar 2013, 08:17

Red wrote:
SG wrote:lol, got this from somewhere,

Eng : text and get into trouble
Aus : don't text and get into trouble
Ashes - to text or not to text!

Well has has been suggested elsewhere, test cricketers either get sacked for texting or not texting South Africans.

Twitter also hinted that Mitch Johnson actually did complete his homework but he strayed the delivery to Arthur.

He sent it to KP?

by Red Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:08

Was amusing to listen to Doug Walters interviewed re. the saga. He said that when he was at school he never used to do homework because he always told his teachers that he was going to be a test cricketer so bemoaned the fact that if he played today he would be given written homework. He admitted his view was probably an old-fashioned one but said that in his time everyone was accountable for their performances and some played hard but still performed the next day. If they didn't they would incur the wrath of their teammates and he thinks that when players are struggling they should be hitting the nets not the exercise books. He also wondered why Arthur if he's so highly paid didn't lay down the law to the players about where they were going wrong.

Of course there is a school of thought that some players may not have wanted to complete the sheets because they apportioned a lot of the blame with Arthur's methods.

Interesting that Jim Maxwell is one of many critics who thinks that the punishment should have been dealt with in-house. Of course if the consequence as going to be players such as Pattinson sacked for the test the real reasons would have inevitably leaked out.

by tricycle Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:52

JGK wrote:Reinventing homework:

Brilliant

by lardbucket Tue 12 Mar 2013, 10:59

I notice he is wearing a Pakistani cap.

by Nath Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:34

tricycle wrote:
JGK wrote:Reinventing homework:

Brilliant

Forum Gold! boozin

by JGK Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:50

Big Dog wrote:
skully wrote:
doremi wrote:Well, atleast Pattinson seems to have a sensible head on his shoulders.
Aye, good to see Patto come out and cop it sweet. Let's see what Twatto does in the coming weeks.

What you mean is that Patto is covering his @rse to ensure his future. Can't blame him but its still pathetic. If it was still the days of semi professional cricket, someone would have punched Arthurs lights out by now.

I agree with BD. Patto is the only one with a long term career in front of him so is trying to limit the damage.

by Henry Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:55

Twatto has hit back at Pat Howard, saying he doesn't know him well enough to say he doesn't always put the team first.

I'd suggest to Twatto that Howard has had several meetings with Mickey Arthur and Michael Clarke over the last six months.....

by JGK Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:57

I must say I feel a bit dirty feeling some sympathy for Twatto.

by Henry Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:59

JGK wrote:I must say I feel a bit dirty feeling some sympathy for Twatto.

To be fair, he's always come across as a pretty decent bloke off the field.

by Red Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:59

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8415279/Gags-flow-over-Aussie-cricket-homework-debacle

They're having fun across the Tasman too.

Maybe the Howard input is exactly what Chappelli was referring to, too many chiefs walking about needing to justify their roles.

by JGK Tue 12 Mar 2013, 12:03

Red wrote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8415279/Gags-flow-over-Aussie-cricket-homework-debacle

They're having fun across the Tasman too.

Maybe the Howard input is exactly what Chappelli was referring to, too many chiefs walking about needing to justify their roles.

I don't think there has ever been any doubt about that. WTF is a "High Performance Manager" anyway? The only other one I know if is Brett Robinson who didn't think it was a good idea for the Waratahs to sign Andrew Johns.

That decision probably cost us the 2003 rugby World Cup.

by Henry Tue 12 Mar 2013, 12:06

JGK wrote:
Red wrote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8415279/Gags-flow-over-Aussie-cricket-homework-debacle

They're having fun across the Tasman too.

Maybe the Howard input is exactly what Chappelli was referring to, too many chiefs walking about needing to justify their roles.

I don't think there has ever been any doubt about that. WTF is a "High Performance Manager" anyway? The only other one I know if is Brett Robinson who didn't think it was a good idea for the Waratahs to sign Andrew Johns.

That decision probably cost us the 2003 rugby World Cup.

He probably knew that in international competition, it would be impossible for Johns's drug habits to be kept 'in-house' like they were at the Knights and with the NRL media.

by PeterCS Tue 12 Mar 2013, 13:20

So, is Arthur a piece of work?

by embee Tue 12 Mar 2013, 13:57

I reckon Watto and Midge are the two most frustrating cricketers in Oz

On "Potential" they are absolute top shelf guns who any team in the world would want

In "Reality" they are a scattergun poop deliverer and a lazy running start wasting Medicare safety net recipient who no longer bowls

Arthur is correct about Watson ...he should be delivering Kallis type numbers with the bat ...instead he has become an LBW waiting to happen ...given the lack of talent waiting to get into the team (and already in the team) it's no wonder Watson has been given so many chances ...If this is the kick in the arse that Watto needed to get his game back together or ****** off completely then I dont have a problem with it

Johnson wasnt in the team ...he may have been handy ...he may have gone for 500 in wides ...he's a senior player too who should be doing more ...he seems to go well for a couple of games after Lillee has talked to him before reverting to the bowler the barmy army love ...the self assessment was either going to prime him up or make him expendable

Patto probably would have been injury rested by the fitness ****** wits

Ussie was expendable as the Bannies wouldnt want a 'stani in the opposition

In reality they were hoping Smith and Hughes wouldnt hand in their assignment ...their managers probably tweeted it in for them

by furriner Tue 12 Mar 2013, 15:58

embee wrote:....
Ussie was expendable as the Bannies wouldnt want a 'stani in the opposition

Get ******, horrie.

by Basil Tue 12 Mar 2013, 18:30

Big Dog wrote:
Red wrote:So the rumblings hinted at last night seem to be true.

According to Seven news tonight the team culture is poisonous and the Clarke/Watto relationship has been severely strained for months.

Pat Howard is now saying that there have been repeated breaches of discipline and that these will remain in-house.

Several luminaries suggested to the Argus Report that having both coach and captain as selector and it's hard not to imagine that this doesn't at times put them into a position of conflict.

The Hussey rumours have persisted and according to Seven news there is a chasm in the Aussie camp and Clarke's leadership is now under pressure. The fact that Arthur says he is prepared to work with the Mohali mob again doesn't augur well for smooth waters in the future.

As for reviews, can't see anything wrong with them per se but wonder if the consequences were spelt out to them before the infractions. Agree with Clarke's stance on standards and repercussions and after all the players had the time to complete the appraisals but undoubtedly these are recidivists otherwise the punishment doesn't necessarily reflect the crime and it penalises the whole team. In my line of work we complete annual review which also involve periodic meetings to chart progress. In reality these are a distraction from our main tasks but they do force us to reflect and be introspective regarding our performances.

Peter Lalor was interviewed on radio in the early hours of this morning and made the point that Watson had some choice words to say about Aussie cricket at the team hotel within earshot of the journos after the press conference. His fractured relationship with certain teammates might be difficult to mend. He was highly chastened at rocking up to ask for leave for the fourth test only to be given the bad news by Arthur. According to Lalor the journos had been tipped off that the Mohali mob had been complicit in not competing the Wellness Charts but he admitted that Ussie was a repeat offender in this regard for whatever reason. Maybe the fact that Watto seemed to think he had carte blanche to put in his orders re. opening, bowling etc. suggested that he felt he had a power base within the team structure and maybe he was given too much rope which also suggests that Clarke's authority has been undermined hence the drawing of the line in the sand.

The hated Chappelli has spoken on radio in respect of this issue. He's surprised that it's come to us and thinks they need a case or two of beer and a closed shop meeting to air issues. He believes that there are too many chiefs with many having input to justify their positions. He also thinks that Clarke should court those willing to argue with him because he welcomed contrary views and felt that these sort of guys would be the type to take it up to the opposition and fight in the trenches so to speak. He's also pissed off that there are guys who are ordinary players who are getting preferential treatment by kow towing to those in power and just because they are good at filling in forms. He thought that Mohali offered our quicks the best chance because Delhi will be another spinning track.

At least Cowan no longer has to look over his shoulder for Watson.

In this case Chapelli is 100% correct.

So, Pup had problems with Katich - Katich is dropped. Pup has problems with Hussey - Hussey retires. Pup has sproblems with Watto - Watto spits the dummy, toys and nappy. So can we infer that Clarke does not possess the man management skills to deal with "awkward" characters? Although it stretches a point to describe the first two as awkward.

by lardbucket Tue 12 Mar 2013, 19:29

Basil wrote:Pup had problems with Katich - Katich is dropped

... aye, and after playing an innings on one leg that no-one else in the side had the guts to play on two

Pup has problems with Hussey - Hussey retires

another man done gone

Pup has problems with Watto

slightly different case, but another former captaincy rival gone

can we infer that Clarke does not possess the man management skills to deal with "awkward" characters? Although it stretches a point to describe the first two as awkward.

Yep, and he likes to clear out all the 'tall timber' and potential rivals so that he can 'kick down'. Ponting and Haddin also gone, of course, so Clarke stands out as the only senior player, with his troop of chosen, underperforming, fawning acolytes.

by G.Wood Tue 12 Mar 2013, 20:59

I thought it interesting that 100% of AFL players* (who operate under similar culture of team rules) thought that suspensions were the correct response regardless of how trivial the task was.

* sample size 3

by skully Tue 12 Mar 2013, 21:29

embee wrote:I reckon Watto and Midge are the two most frustrating cricketers in Oz

On "Potential" they are absolute top shelf guns who any team in the world would want

In "Reality" they are a scattergun poop deliverer and a lazy running start wasting Medicare safety net recipient who no longer bowls

Arthur is correct about Watson ...he should be delivering Kallis type numbers with the bat ...instead he has become an LBW waiting to happen ...given the lack of talent waiting to get into the team (and already in the team) it's no wonder Watson has been given so many chances ...If this is the kick in the arse that Watto needed to get his game back together or ****** off completely then I dont have a problem with it

Johnson wasnt in the team ...he may have been handy ...he may have gone for 500 in wides ...he's a senior player too who should be doing more ...he seems to go well for a couple of games after Lillee has talked to him before reverting to the bowler the barmy army love ...the self assessment was either going to prime him up or make him expendable

Patto probably would have been injury rested by the fitness ****** wits

Ussie was expendable as the Bannies wouldnt want a 'stani in the opposition

In reality they were hoping Smith and Hughes wouldnt hand in their assignment ...their managers probably tweeted it in for them

Nice summary. Cool

by horace Tue 12 Mar 2013, 22:33

wot embee said...

spose the difference between the two is that Midge is completely thick and "living on planet Mitch" whereas schoolgirl is bright enough but self absorbed...made no mention at all about the other 3 stood down...as ever it is always about schoolgirl

shocked by lardy's position on this

by Henry Tue 12 Mar 2013, 22:59

I think it's starting to dawn on the Australian public that this decision had just as much to do with Clarke as it did Mickey Arthur.

The initial reaction was to blame the 'outsider' Arthur for not doing it the 'Australian way', but the truth is that Clarke is a ruthless little shit who will oust a team mate if he feels he's not pulling his weight. First it was Symonds during the Top-End tour four years ago- sent home after he went fishing instead of attending a team meeting...Clarke was captain as Ponting was having a break, then Katich- the altercation in the SCG dressing room after the dodgy win against Pakistan in 2010, then Hussey (although there's less evidence of a feud with Clarke there) and now these four and more specifically Watson.

Shane Warne and co have been mysteriously quiet through all of this, no doubt knowing that an attack on this move would be an attack on his 'best buddy' Clarke.

Time will tell if Clarke is doing the right thing, but it does seem to have a bit of mid 90s England about it, where the coach Ray Illingworth didn't tolerate 'different' characters (Hick, Caddick, Tufnell, Malcolm) and rather than try and manage them better, just sent them home/refused to pick them.

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