Jimmy Anderson - best English bowler since.....?

I remember a year or so ago a debate on here about whether Anderson was now a better bowler than Goughie. I think that's clear now, so he must be our best in the last 30 years.

Go back to 40 years, is he better than Willis or Botham? He might well be, you know. A class act and getting better all the time. Willis was quicker but a little unreliable and boosted by Packer withdrawals. Botham started his career better but got too fat and slow.

So I would argue he's our best bowler since John Snow.

Keep on winning Tests like this and he may even overtake Snow and then there would only be Fiery Fred above him in the English pantheon.

Given his early struggles he's never going to get his average down close to 25, so his end of career stats may not necessarily compare favourably to the greats - but in recent years he's been a class apart from probably anyone but Steyn worldwide.

I didn't see Snow, Willis or peak years Botham bowl live, so hard to make a comparison there, but it's difficult to think of a bowler who has had such a sustained period of outstanding performances in the time I've been watching England.

If he started his career in 2008, he'd be considered on England's finest of all time. As it is, he's probably our best since Willis.

Anderson's bowling in this match was the difference in the end. An old ball and Australia closing in on 114/2 the fourth day and he produced a brilliant spell of 8-3-11-1 deceiving the well set Rogers.

Then this morning and the other 3 bowlers offered nothing, it was all down to Jimmy and 13 overs unchanged, even better than Flintoff at Lords in '09 - more skillful and unrelenting: 13-6-29-3. Most of the boundries were off the edge, absolutely brilliant and then coming back to finish it off - 1.5-1-0-1. Wonderful.

Let's just hope he has some fuel left in the tank.

Good to see the England guys let their guard down a bit in the post-match interviews. They're usually such a deadpan bunch. Prior campaigning for Billy the trumpeter to return, Cook making a great joke about no longer being sure he'll be the first England captain since Athers to not go bald- pointing to Hussain, Vaughan, and Strauss, and Jimmy joking that Cook just about made up for that dropped catch with the blinder he took the next over.

It's not the sort of match that engenders hard-nosed hard-bastard nationalism.

On reflection, maybe it's just as well that technology now carries the can as well as the umpires and opponents (and occasionally, teammates).

PeterCS wrote:It's not the sort of match that engenders hard-nosed hard-bastard nationalism.

On reflection, maybe it's just as well that technology now carries the can as well as the umpires and opponents (and occasionally, teammates).

Umpiring blunders have ALWAYS played a part in the drama of cricket. However, being 2013, it means the drama is occasionally connected to an infra red camera, rather than just decisions on the field.

Dar made some howlers at Trent Bridge in 2005 as well. Martyn and Katich were sawn off.

Henry wrote: Cook making a great joke about no longer being sure he'll be the first England captain since Athers to not go bald- pointing to Hussain, Vaughan, and Strauss.

Yet more anti-Pietersen bullying from the England clique. He's either losing his hair or never captained his country now. He's probably angrily texting Mickey Arthur about this comment as we speak.

Henry wrote:

PeterCS wrote:It's not the sort of match that engenders hard-nosed hard-bastard nationalism.

On reflection, maybe it's just as well that technology now carries the can as well as the umpires and opponents (and occasionally, teammates).

Umpiring blunders have ALWAYS played a part in the drama of cricket. However, being 2013, it means the drama is occasionally connected to an infra red camera, rather than just decisions on the field.

Dar made some howlers at Trent Bridge in 2005 as well. Martyn and Katich were sawn off.

The 98/99 Ashes were arguably decided by a 3rd umpire blunder from 'Awful' Taufel when he gave Slater not out after a run out appeal. He went on to score a big hundred that meant Aus halted England's fight-back and didn't end up drawing 2-2.

Gary 111 wrote:

Henry wrote:

PeterCS wrote:It's not the sort of match that engenders hard-nosed hard-bastard nationalism.

On reflection, maybe it's just as well that technology now carries the can as well as the umpires and opponents (and occasionally, teammates).

Umpiring blunders have ALWAYS played a part in the drama of cricket. However, being 2013, it means the drama is occasionally connected to an infra red camera, rather than just decisions on the field.

Dar made some howlers at Trent Bridge in 2005 as well. Martyn and Katich were sawn off.

The 98/99 Ashes were arguably decided by a 3rd umpire blunder from 'Awful' Taufel when he gave Slater not out after a run out appeal. He went on to score a big hundred that meant Aus halted England's fight-back and didn't end up drawing 2-2.

Yeah, the 29 year old Simon Taufel, who ruled Slater not out most pragmatically because there was no clear shot of the bails actually being broken and Slater out of his crease together in the one frame. Still, he went on to become an alright umpire......

Yeah, he did okay. Glad we have neutral 3rd umpires now though, even with the silly Erasmus student this time. Worst of all was Daryl Harper with his TV on mute. I reckon he was watching Neighbours instead.

Henry wrote:Good to see the England guys let their guard down a bit in the post-match interviews. They're usually such a deadpan bunch. Prior campaigning for Billy the trumpeter to return, Cook making a great joke about no longer being sure he'll be the first England captain since Athers to not go bald- pointing to Hussain, Vaughan, and Strauss, and Jimmy joking that Cook just about made up for that dropped catch with the blinder he took the next over.

Yeah, well Cook will probably never have to captain against Graeme Smith at home.

Best since Bob Willis, probably. Because of Botham's fat lemony phase. Will concede that he's gone past Bobby. Since 2008 he's taken 255 @ 27.3, since 2010 he's taken 169 @ 25.17.

Can't ask for a great deal more.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but he's got a bit more nip back and (apart from the high end) he sustained his pace throughout his long old spell.

Top business.

Was reading more about Jimmy and for such a masterful swing bowler this really surprised me:

"When I first got picked for Lancashire I couldn't swing the ball, so [coach] Mike Watkinson took me aside and taught me how to do it: the grip and the seam position," reveals Anderson.

"He said imagine the feel of it coming out of your hand almost like an off-spinner, your arm coming over almost like a round-arm, or low-arm. That really worked for me because I'm a feel kind of bowler.

"From there I tried to develop an inswinger. That took me years and years to actually develop the confidence to bowl it in a game, and then another couple of years to actually get it straight.

"Over the last few years, if I bowl a good ball I just try to think about everything I did during that ball, how it came out of my fingers, how it felt and just try to recreate that over and over again."

Most decent U15 club cricketers have a decent awayswinger so surprised he relied on pace alone until he played for Lancs aged 19. And consider how far he's come now - I can't remember an England bowler who could swing the ball both ways with such control and with such little perceptible change in action.

Hmm. Hard one to judge. I think Anderson has been helped a lot by having another top-class bowler like Swann in the team. 9 times out of 10, Swann keeps pressure on at the one end (not just economy rate but wicket-taking threat) giving the seamers a lot more to work with at the other end. Our current group of seamers is very lucky in that sense as previous guys have had to do the bulk of the wicket-taking on their own while some useless part-time wannabe spinner bowls outside leg-stump and tries to tie batsmen down. That's why I don't really like to compare bowlers from different sides who have very similar statistics.

Gary 111 wrote:I can't remember an England bowler who could swing the ball both ways with such control and with such little perceptible change in action.

Michael Holding reckoned he hasn't seen many bowlers full stop who has been able to do it.

Brass Monkey wrote:

Gary 111 wrote:I can't remember an England bowler who could swing the ball both ways with such control and with such little perceptible change in action.

Michael Holding reckoned he hasn't seen many bowlers full stop who has been able to do it.

Yeah, in recent years I can think of Vaas (at a slower pace), Zaheer (at a similar pace) and Marshall (pre speed-guns but probably quicker) who had such mastery of swing. Any others? There are some like Steyn or Caddick who have had a masterful awayswinger, but aside from reverse swing they don't really bring it back*.

*Although to be fair to Steyn he bowls so quick he doesn't need to swing it much

Tony Penberthy?

Gary 111 wrote:Was reading more about Jimmy and for such a masterful swing bowler this really surprised me:

"When I first got picked for Lancashire I couldn't swing the ball, so [coach] Mike Watkinson took me aside and taught me how to do it: the grip and the seam position," reveals Anderson.

"He said imagine the feel of it coming out of your hand almost like an off-spinner, your arm coming over almost like a round-arm, or low-arm. That really worked for me because I'm a feel kind of bowler.

"From there I tried to develop an inswinger. That took me years and years to actually develop the confidence to bowl it in a game, and then another couple of years to actually get it straight.

"Over the last few years, if I bowl a good ball I just try to think about everything I did during that ball, how it came out of my fingers, how it felt and just try to recreate that over and over again."

Most decent U15 club cricketers have a decent awayswinger so surprised he relied on pace alone until he played for Lancs aged 19. And consider how far he's come now - I can't remember an England bowler who could swing the ball both ways with such control and with such little perceptible change in action.

Agreed, even Beefy used to telegraph his inswinger.

To back this up, a bit of a statsgasm - Anderson is third only to Steyn (and if he keeps his good early form up Philanderer) over the last 5 years amongst seamers:

Test pace bowlers since 1 May 2008 (75 wickets minimum)

1) V. Philanderer, S Africa, 16 matches, 89 wkts at 17.13
2) Dale Steyn, So. Africa, 42 matches, 212 wkts at 23.25
3) Jimmy Anderson, Eng, 61 matches, 247 wkts at 27.12
4) Kemar Roach, WIndies, 23 matches, 85 wkts at 27.71
5) Peter Siddle, Australia, 42 matches, 158 wkts at 28.23
6) BenMilfenhaus,Austalia, 27 matches, 99 wkts at 28.50
7) SteveThomas Finn, Eng, 23 matches, 90 wkts at 29.40
8. Morne Morkel, SAfrica, 43 matches, 158 wkts at 29.72
9) Sturat Broad, England, 55 matches, 189 wkts at 30.59
10) Zaheer Khan, Indians, 35 matches, 125 wkts at 30.66
11) Mitch Johnson, Austr, 45 matches, 181 wkts at 30.77
12) Fidel Edwards, West I, 24 matches, 85 wkts at 32.61
13) Tim Southee, New Zzz, 32 matches, 78 wkts at 34.75
14) Coldplay, NewZealand, 31 matches, 97 wkts at 35.41
15) Umar Seagul,Pakistan, 31 matches, 96 wkts at 35.82
16) Instant Karma,Indians, 45 matches, 127 wkts at 38.19

**World Cricket In Crisis**

Brass Monkey wrote:**World Cricket In Crisis**

Maybe - I think these bowlers have a hard lot though. With flatter pitches, better bats, shorter boundries, no rest day for bowlers its harder for them to compete.

In those 5 years when Anderson has been at his best look at all the Test batsmen averaging over 50 (1,000 runs or more): Chanderpaul (67), Pujara (66), de Villiers (62), Amla (62), Sangakkara (60), Gayle (56), Samaraweera (55), Younus (55), Samuels (54), Clarke (54), Kallis (53), Cook (51), Laxman (51), Katich (50), Tendulkar (50)

Whereas someone like Willis, who played his best Test cricket in the late 70s/early 80s when batsmen didn't have / or weren't raised with such good protective equipment, pitches were more variable and tailenders didn't practice their batting - how many batsmen averaged over 50 in his core years (winter 76 - summer 83): Zaheer (55), Miandad (54), Gavaskar (53), Viv Richards (53), G Chappell (50).

Good points. There seems to be a lot more headless bowlers now, who don't really have a clue how to put a dismissal together.

Jimmeh is outstanding and at the peak of his game. IMHO currrently the best quick in the world.

His control in this match was of the highest order. Even the the final ball of the match was a brilliant slower ball with big off cut that foxed Haddit.

I picked him to take 30 wickets in the series, but seemingly only injury can stop him topping 35.

He may be the opposition's spearhead but I love watching him bowl.