Tremlett, Panesar and Stokes train with England

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/651871.html

Is this Flower being a bit mischievous and putting a shot across the bows of Finn, Bairstow and Swann?

Probably not Bairstow - Stokes has been mediocre with the bat for 18 months.

Keeping Monty's hand in makes sense as, if the weather stays like this all series, surely it's going to be two-spinner territory at some stage.

Tremlett, I think, is pencilled in for the winter series. They're just checking his progress.

It'd be great if he was fully fit and firing, but he'd have been useless at TB - the pitch would've totally nullified his main weapon, which is bounce.

If the wickets remain broadly the same, he and Finn should be discounted entirely. Skiddy pace would work better. Unfortunately Meaker is still injured.

England are not going to pick 2 spinners - it would mean either picking two seamers or dropping a batsmen, it simply isn't going to happen.

Samit Patel getting  a game. It's not far-fetched, he scored a ton for Notts last week and he would offer some SLA variety.

Basil wrote:England are not going to pick 2 spinners - it would mean either picking two seamers or dropping a batsmen, it simply isn't going to happen.

Did they not play two spinners against India over the winter?

Anderson, Broad, Panesar, Swann was the winning attack.

Perhaps I did Ben Stokes an injustice and he is being considered. Can bat at six, bowl at high 80s and be third seamer in a two spinner attack.

Basil wrote:England are not going to pick 2 spinners - it would mean either picking two seamers or dropping a batsmen, it simply isn't going to happen.

Samit Patel getting  a game. It's not far-fetched, he scored a ton for Notts last week and he would offer some SLA variety.

They should seriously consider 2 spinners for Old Trafford, spinners, especially slow left armers, have been the main wicket takers there have dominated all of the recent games there.

2005: England 444 (Warne 4/99, Lee 4/100) & 280 for 6 dec (McGrath 5/115) vs Australia 302 all out (Jones 6/53, Giles 3/100) & 371 for 9 (Flintoff 4/71)
2006: Pakistan 119 (Harmison 6/19, Panesar 3/21) & 222 (Harmison 5/57, Panesar 5/72) vs England 461 for 9 dec (Gul 3/96)
2007: England 370 (Collymore 3/60, Edwards 3/94) & 313 (Sammy 7/66) vs West Indies 229 (Panesar 4/40, Sidebottom 3/48) & 394 (Panesar 6/137, Harmison 4/95)
2008: New Zealand 381 (Anderson 4/118) & 114 (Panesar 6/37) vs England 202 all out (Vettori 5/66, O'Brien 3/49) & 294 for 4
2010: England 419 (Shakib 5/121) vs Bangladesh 216 (Swann 5/76, Shahzad 3/45) & 123 (Finn 5/42 & Anderson 3/16)

If not its the 90mph+ bowlers who have had success (Lee, Jones, Harmison, Edwards, Finn), McGrath's wickets only came when they were going for a declaration. The main exception is the Windies, but they didn't select a spinner and went for a battery of medium pacers and England scored 300+ in each innings.

Dello wrote:

Basil wrote:England are not going to pick 2 spinners - it would mean either picking two seamers or dropping a batsmen, it simply isn't going to happen.

Did they not play two spinners against India over the winter?

Anderson, Broad, Panesar, Swann was the winning attack.

Perhaps I did Ben Stokes an injustice and he is being considered. Can bat at six, bowl at high 80s and be third seamer in a two spinner attack.

Remind me what happened when we last played five specialist batsmen in an Ashes test - it was Headingley 2009 and we were mullered. It won't happen again - unless we're three nil up going to The Oval.

What about dropping Finn for Panesar at Old Trafford?

Well, it's then a massive reliance on Jimmy and Sturat, if one of them goes down injured we're reduced to Trott taking the new ball!

beamer wrote:Well, it's then a massive reliance on Jimmy and Sturat, if one of them goes down injured we're reduced to Trott taking the new ball!

But if the pitch is turning loads then we would want our spinners to do most of the bowling.

You could equally say pick 3 seamers and if Swann gets injured we're reduced to Root and KP bowling all our spin.

Basil wrote:England are not going to pick 2 spinners - it would mean either picking two seamers or dropping a batsmen, it simply isn't going to happen.

Samit Patel getting  a game. It's not far-fetched, he scored a ton for Notts last week and he would offer some SLA variety.

Root's a better part-time bowler than Samit anyway. England realised this when they gave Root an unexpected debut in India after Samit's bowling had been carted.

I think they should seriously consider Stokes at seven. He seems to have gained a yard of pace since last season, and whilst his batting in first class cricket this season hasn't been great, his batting in the shorter stuff has been pretty good, and at seven he'd have more of a license to play his shots.

And Lord's will never be a raging turner. Even if it's dry, it'll be too slow for Monty to be effective. He needs spin and pace in the pitch. Old Trafford is ideal for him.

Heard on today's commentary that Morgan is training with them too.

Seems unlikely he'll be in contention as he's coming back from a broken finger and hasn't played a FC game in about a year.

Also, he's garbage.

Might need a KP replacement at Old Trafford though - Morgan's name will certainly be in the frame, unless they go for a batting all-rounder like Stokes or Fat Sam, or the less likely fifth bowler.

They'll go for Gary Ballance. James Taylor has zero chance - if the Nottinghamshire Members Crew are to be believed (which they're generally not, to be honest!). No matter what happens one would imagine they'll name a spare batsman in the squad. Possibly a second spinner as well, it being Old Trafford ...

Why hasn't Ballance been called up to the training squad if he's next in line though?

I can see them going for Morgan as the "establishment" player, given Chavi's not fit, despite his lack of form and time in the middle.

beamer wrote:Why hasn't Ballance been called up to the training squad if he's next in line though?

I can see them going for Morgan as the "establishment" player, given Chavi's not fit, despite his lack of form and time in the middle.

I don't think there was any plan to change the batting this series, barring injury, hence there are no real batsmen in the 'training squad'. In terms of the establishment, Compton would be the next logical choice, in terms of consistency.

Well, if Root had failed again as opener it would have been a convenient excuse to recall Compton and slip him back down the order, but that's not going to happen now. They're not going to move Trott either so will they really pick Compton to bat 4, 5 or 6? Also it's a blocker for a basher so would un-balance (un-Gary?) the batting order!

I still think Samit Patel is a decent bet for a call-up: he's scored a ton recently and his SLA might come in handy. Just have to hide him somewhere in the field where he can't do any damage!

Little Jimmy would be the obvious choice, though it risks a big lack of experience - three of the top six.

Stokes, Ballance, Lees (!) - even more so.

Bops is injured, so no fourth chance for him.

I would be surprised if they chose Morgan, as they have him (rightly) tagged as a one-day specialist.

They might go for Patel, but I'm not sure they should.


Anyway, Kev might well be fit in the 10 days, so speculation might be idle.

Morgan hasn't played a first class game all season. To select him for an Ashes test would be a travesty and a huge slap in the face for County Cricket.

If KP is out they'll probably go with either Taylor or Ballance. Can't see them picking Compo at six.

Gooch's comments this morning suggest that Ickle Jimmy is perceived to be the logical replacement - even within England circles. I hope so. I'd love to see the wee man make it as a Test cricketer.

He is the logical choice and is full of runs - so obviously they'll probably choose Bopara

Basil wrote:He is the logical choice and is full of runs - so obviously they'll probably choose Bopara

I hope not, as he's injured...