England team for SA tour

Following the tour of UAE where the selection policy was confused at best and criminal at worst - what are you guys thinking should go to SA.

Will be good to see how far away from ECB's squad we'll all be (given I reckon they'll probably only make 1 or at a push 2 changes to the 11 from this test).

For me:

Shoo-ins:

Cook
Root
Anderson
Broad

Good players - and should play in the 1st 2 tests for sure but got to prove they can start moving in the direction of the above 4 in terms of guaranteed selectability and becoming mainstays:

Wood
Stokes

Players we need to find out whether they're up to it or not at test level:

Taylor (should get the full series)
Hales (at least 2 tests - if really struggling one of the blokes lower down this post should come in)
The notional best young county spinner (should play in a test as primary and maybe solitary spinner)
The notional next best keeper (if Buttler's batting is shite in warm-up games then this keeper starts test series)
Foottit (if not on this tour then when - left arm, fast, seems to be the 'in' thing in fast bowling and gives us much needed variety)

Players previously dropped who maybe ought to be re-admitted to the inner sanctum and given a chance in warm-up game(s) to see if they have the form to maybe push for the test team:

Compton
Ballance (pains me to say it but I'm desperate)
Lyth (see above)

Players who make it by the skin of their teeth into the squad - and need to prove themselves in warm-up game(s) to merit consideration for a test place:

Ali (if young spinner has calamitous test then Ali comes in to show he's slightly less calamitous)
Buttler
Rashid (toss up with Ali as the back-up spinner)
Finn (back-up for when Wood gets injured)

Players who should be consigned to the bin FOREVER AND EVER AMEN:

Bell (never gonna happen unfortunately)
Bairstow (ditto)
Patel (he's gawn)

Probably way too many players there and probably loads of jumbled thinking for you all to critique and deride.

Maybe they could play a probables versus possibles game whilst they're out there and make a test squad out of that.

This XI could hardly do worse than the splodge of bum-gravy in the ME just now.

1. A Cook(c)
2. A Hales
3. A Stewart(w)
4. J Root
5. J Taylor
6. G Boycott's Mum
7. G Boycotts Wife
8. G Boycott's daughter
9. M Ali
10. S Broad
11. J Anderson.

Realistically, but not realistically: 

Cook 
Hales 
Taylor 
Root
Ballance 
Ali
A Keeper 
Stokes 
Plunkett 
Broad 
Anderson 

A Keeper, for me, would be anyone but Bairstow and Buttler. Who are mentally/technically shot. I'd personally would go down the Duckett route, but bias can be called into question. 

As for the third seamer it has to be Plunkett or Footitt. If Stokes is still freaky deak then they should both play. 

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Ali isn't much cop as a spinner. Nobody else is, either. I think six is about right for him as a batsmen. 8 was too low, but we were under the pretence that Stokes and Buttler could be reliable lower middle order batsmen. So he could build an innings a bit longer and then go the tonk. As well as lobbing in his erratic respite filth with the ball.

Give me a few days. ...

Brass Monkey wrote:

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Jonny Bairstow's ruined averages for everyone now. They're meaningless - certainly not an indicator of any kind of quality, competence or brain function.

So, with that in mind, I've decided Daniel Bell-Drummond deserves a chance. Because I've seen him a couple of times where he's looked all right. And then he scored that hundred against the Aussie touring side. What more do you need to know, England selectors?

Where's Vince?

I think Balance and Barstool need a proctracted go

Growler wrote:This XI could hardly do worse than the splodge of bum-gravy in the ME just now.

1. A Cook(c)
2. A Hales
3. A Stewart(w)
4. J Root
5. J Taylor
6. G Boycott's Mum
7. G Boycotts Wife
8. G Boycott's daughter
9. M Ali
10. S Broad
11. J Anderson.

12. A Sticka-Rhubarb
13. Mimam Spinny ??

Well, here's a placeholder:

1. Roy
2. Compton
3. Trott
4. Pietersen *
5. Ballance (1)
6. Lumb
7. Malan
8. Prior +
9. Berg
10. Curran (T)
11. Dernbach

(1) - qualifies on residence.

Dello wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Jonny Bairstow's ruined averages for everyone now. They're meaningless - certainly not an indicator of any kind of quality, competence or brain function.

So, with that in mind, I've decided Daniel Bell-Drummond deserves a chance. Because I've seen him a couple of times where he's looked all right. And then he scored that hundred against the Aussie touring side. What more do you need to know, England selectors?  

And he promises to be Bell with a little bit extra. The hyphen makes all the difference.

Get Tresco out of retirement.

This group of England selectors are amongst the worst I have come across- No clear plans for the future at all. They seem to pick sides based purely on numbers.

I can tell you that a gamble on raw but obviously talented players such as Roy, Vince, and Bell-Drummond will be ruled out. They'll recall Gary Ballance, and probably retain Ian Bell.

Brass Monkey wrote:Realistically, but not realistically: 

Cook 
Hales 
Taylor 
Root
Ballance 
Ali
A Keeper 
Stokes 
Plunkett 
Broad 
Anderson 

A Keeper, for me, would be anyone but Bairstow and Buttler. Who are mentally/technically shot. I'd personally would go down the Duckett route, but bias can be called into question. 

As for the third seamer it has to be Plunkett or Footitt. If Stokes is still freaky deak then they should both play. 

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Ali isn't much cop as a spinner. Nobody else is, either. I think six is about right for him as a batsmen. 8 was too low, but we were under the pretence that Stokes and Buttler could be reliable lower middle order batsmen. So he could build an innings a bit longer and then go the tonk. As well as lobbing in his erratic respite filth with the ball.

Largely works for me - with 2 questions for you.

Taylor at 3 is a bit scary for me. Presuming the gate merchant, as you've accurately described him, would probably be out within the first 5 overs at least 50% of his innings v Steyn and The Philanderer, Taylor is effectively an opener by default. I think, from previous debates, you are not particularly fond of shifting Root up to 3 - but (after Cook) he is the best (maybe only) man technically capable to deal with the new ball.

No Wood for you (oooh matron) in this team then? Have I missed some big, long term injury update on him or do you just not want him in there?

This

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/06/england-trevor-bayliss-adil-rashid-south-africa-tour-cricket

suggests Rashid out, and Moeen stood down as opener (probs for Hales), otherwise as you were.


FERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRK.

horace wrote:I think Balance and Barstool need a proctracted go

Does this involve rectal examinations?

Lindsay no.2 wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Realistically, but not realistically: 

Cook 
Hales 
Taylor 
Root
Ballance 
Ali
A Keeper 
Stokes 
Plunkett 
Broad 
Anderson 

A Keeper, for me, would be anyone but Bairstow and Buttler. Who are mentally/technically shot. I'd personally would go down the Duckett route, but bias can be called into question. 

As for the third seamer it has to be Plunkett or Footitt. If Stokes is still freaky deak then they should both play. 

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Ali isn't much cop as a spinner. Nobody else is, either. I think six is about right for him as a batsmen. 8 was too low, but we were under the pretence that Stokes and Buttler could be reliable lower middle order batsmen. So he could build an innings a bit longer and then go the tonk. As well as lobbing in his erratic respite filth with the ball.

Largely works for me - with 2 questions for you.

Taylor at 3 is a bit scary for me. Presuming the gate merchant, as you've accurately described him, would probably be out within the first 5 overs at least 50% of his innings v Steyn and The Philanderer, Taylor is effectively an opener by default. I think, from previous debates, you are not particularly fond of shifting Root up to 3 - but (after Cook) he is the best (maybe only) man technically capable to deal with the new ball.

No Wood for you (oooh matron) in this team then? Have I missed some big, long term injury update on him or do you just not want him in there?

I personally don't think that Taylor was conspicuously bad in his playing of pace bowling in his previous stint in 2012. But a lot has been made of it. His reasonable defensive technique and his propensity for the quick single and general nuggety strike rotation could serve him and England well when facing a decent pace attack. I'd be loathe to move Root anywhere. It's one of two batting positions that don't need changing. Ballance isn't a number 3 - he's much better suited further down the order. 

As for Wood - he's a walking ankle. Can't be trusted for a run in the Test side because of this. I'd think he'd make for consistent chopping and changing. That's not good for him or his replacement or England. I seem to rate Plunkett very highly - he's never been given a chance for one reason or another. Think he'd do well on South African pitches

Agree with both of those assessments.

Which is a pity, because Wood has something about him. Not just the chirpiness, I mean, but the life off even fairly unhelpful pitches. What can you do with a wankle?

PeterCS wrote:What can you do with a wankle?

Recognise in the summer that it's likely to be a consistent problem and try and rectify it before it gets worse?

Lindsay no.2 wrote:Following the tour of UAE where the selection policy was confused at best and criminal at worst - what are you guys thinking should go to SA.

Will be good to see how far away from ECB's squad we'll all be (given I reckon they'll probably only make 1 or at a push 2 changes to the 11 from this test).

For me:

Shoo-ins:

Cook
Root
Anderson
Broad

Good players - and should play in the 1st 2 tests for sure but got to prove they can start moving in the direction of the above 4 in terms of guaranteed selectability and becoming mainstays:

Wood
Stokes

Players we need to find out whether they're up to it or not at test level:

Taylor (should get the full series)
Hales (at least 2 tests - if really struggling one of the blokes lower down this post should come in)
The notional best young county spinner (should play in a test as primary and maybe solitary spinner)
The notional next best keeper (if Buttler's batting is shite in warm-up games then this keeper starts test series)
Foottit (if not on this tour then when - left arm, fast, seems to be the 'in' thing in fast bowling and gives us much needed variety)

Players previously dropped who maybe ought to be re-admitted to the inner sanctum and given a chance in warm-up game(s) to see if they have the form to maybe push for the test team:

Compton
Ballance (pains me to say it but I'm desperate)
Lyth (see above)

Players who make it by the skin of their teeth into the squad - and need to prove themselves in warm-up game(s) to merit consideration for a test place:

Ali (if young spinner has calamitous test then Ali comes in to show he's slightly less calamitous)
Buttler
Rashid (toss up with Ali as the back-up spinner)
Finn (back-up for when Wood gets injured)

Players who should be consigned to the bin FOREVER AND EVER AMEN:

Bell (never gonna happen unfortunately)
Bairstow (ditto)
Patel (he's gawn)

Probably way too many players there and probably loads of jumbled thinking for you all to critique and deride.

Maybe they could play a probables versus possibles game whilst they're out there and make a test squad out of that.

Well I got a few right and a fair few wrong - and I've shifted position on a few of my picks since I picked them but 2 weeks ago. I'm like a late 80s/early 90s England selector - clueless and prone to knee jerk responses.

Of the 3 I wanted gone for good I can't believe it's the Bell-end who got culled and yet Patel is retained - just incredible.

Brass Monkey wrote:Realistically, but not realistically: 

Cook 
Hales 
Taylor 
Root
Ballance 
Ali
A Keeper 
Stokes 
Plunkett 
Broad 
Anderson 

A Keeper, for me, would be anyone but Bairstow and Buttler. Who are mentally/technically shot. I'd personally would go down the Duckett route, but bias can be called into question. 

As for the third seamer it has to be Plunkett or Footitt. If Stokes is still freaky deak then they should both play. 

Hales is the only opener to average near 50 last season, gate merchant though he is.

Ali isn't much cop as a spinner. Nobody else is, either. I think six is about right for him as a batsmen. 8 was too low, but we were under the pretence that Stokes and Buttler could be reliable lower middle order batsmen. So he could build an innings a bit longer and then go the tonk. As well as lobbing in his erratic respite filth with the ball.

Nice work Columbo - I think that might be, barring Plunkett (and that bloke A Keeper), pretty much on the money. Are you actually James Whittaker in disguise?

They'll stick Ballance back at three and watch him get ground into the dirt. Then try Compton for a match, then drop him.

The Dali Radish has signed with the Barrels in the Babel

It's impossible to fathom Patel's selection for a tour of South Africa. You could just about understand it as a replacement for Ansari (and is he still not fit? He only broke a finger) but picking Patel for a tour of South Africa is an absolute waste of a spot.

Sohhhhhhhhhh .... given that South Africa are floundering in India like a sole out of plaice on dry land, have England some sort of chance? That would knock the Africans off top spot, and (I think) push India to #1.

It seems unlikely. With the kingpin of their attack back and firing, with the spirits of the team raised & roused where they are presently out of sorts (any suspicion of Delhi belly??) and back on home tracks, you would think the hosts will be a radically different proposition.

And England have a paltry pair of three-day matches slated, before they encounter the usual mills-bombed by their less drunken fans on getting rightly shellacked by Steyn & Co.


But whatever about South Africa Refreshed, Resuited & Rebooted .... what about this here England squad?

Two weeks later, I am still pleasantly surprised, by and large, that the England selectors have shown themselves more pragmatic and even open-minded than they are generally given credit for.

Keepers (as batsmen).

Let's face it, they weren't going to change that at this stage, were they? (What about Hodd, Prior's former understudy? Never heard him mentioned.)

Buttler finally struck a bit of gold in the short forms in the UAE. That may be only an irrelevant straw - but more than technique, confidence is what he seemed most to be lacking, almost at zero. So who knows.

Bairstow, you'd fear for him in South Africa, though. Eventually he might still come good and bridge to the decisive and fluent movement he shows at County level, one crucial step higher, against the best seamers. But, as they say, don't hold yer breath. ~ At least he won't be racked by international class spinners, so that he doesn't know his left foot from his right. ...