Trying to work out what the core thing is - some unthought through thoughts

So what is the source of my glee at the current Oz discomfort?

Is it that at last the rest of us are just happy to see the best side (through a few recent downs but let's be honest Oz has been the powerhouse team since 90s - and barring a few crap 80s teams you were up there with W.I in the 70s and going further back you've pretty much been top dog) eating some crap and really squirming? Just pure schadenfreude then at the best getting a bit of pain. I think that sentiment would be felt by fans of 'underdogs' in any sport whenever the pre-eminent force comes unstuck to some degree.

Or am I feeling something a bit nastier or darker rising up inside me? And am I happy about that? Am I right to feel like that or is it reflective of my own bigotry?

For instance in various reports on this I keep hearing about the Australian sense of fair play and that's beginning to irk me somewhat. I don't think I genuinely consider Oz any more or less fair than other cricketing nations. For sure when we're playing you and you appeal or don't walk I'll send a volley at the TV with some invective - but I like to think that's just 'in the moment' stuff. However, maybe it runs deeper than that - and this is causing me to reflect on that somewhat. I haven't figured it out yet...

On the fair play thing it sounds like you've awarded yourselves self-appointed status as the embodiment of fair play and decency. And that simply does not wash for me - as I can recall plenty of instances since I've been watching test cricket when you guys have been anything but decent and proper. And on the flip side you guys can probably give chapter and verse on other nations craptitude. Maybe you guys look at England's supposed stance as being fair and gentlemenly or whatever and perceive that as total b.s. It just feels mental that you guys consider yourselves whiter than white. Is that a genuinely held belief or is it just a media hype thing?

I think the sanctimony of Oz cricket certainly makes me feel happy at your discomfort. And that's not good on my part to feel that but I can't shake it off. If your teams were more humble, hadn't been so abrasive for so long, hadn't dealt in double standards (i.e. Lehmann bleating about crowd abuse - I mean really, we're going to get sermonised by Australia on unruly crowds etc?) then I think there'd be a lot less delight in this for me. If it was NZ you'd just get a bit angry and then get on.

I don't know where I'm at with this. Anybody got any comments on my ramblings then fire away - I could do with some insight as it might help me make a bit more sense of this.

The thing I’ve taken from it is that it seems Australian sports fans/media are generally fine with the sledging, the aggression, the pushing the boundaries of sportsmanship to their limits in a visible/audible way. But when it comes to sneaky, cowardly, pre-ordained cheating, that’s just seen as un-Australian and unacceptable.

Whereas the rest of the world seems not to see those things as polar opposites, but just as two sides of a team with an arrogant, win at all costs attitude.

LN2:

Your average Australian fan has grown (through experience) to expect some players from other nations to cheat, and to squirm and lie afterwards until they are wrist-slapped or even pardoned by the ICC, whether that cheating is at Sarfraz Nawaz, Michael Atherton, Wasim and Waqar, Hansie Cronje, Rahul Dravid, team mint policy, or Mohammed Amir level.

If someone from their own team cheats, though, the public clearly expect CA to penalise that player heavily, more heavily than the pissweak ICC. They also 'write off' that cheating player off for life. Trevor Chappell, who gave an interesting view the other night, and whose life has been ruined by one act, whose marriage broke down, and who hasn't spoken to his brother in over ten years, is an example of this. He hasn't moved for 35+ years without someone calling him out on that one delivery. What he said, and I believe it, is that Australian society will punish Warner and Smith more severely than either the ICC or even CA. Bancroft's career and perhaps life have also been ruined. At the end of the day it's the totally unforgiving Australian public, not the players or the board, who believe that the phrase 'it's not cricket' still means something, that our cricketers must never cheat, and if/when they do, they will pay for it with their honour if not their lives. Smith, Warner are the true Hollow Men, they and Bancroft will never play for Australia again.

You see this collective unforgiving national response as sanctimonious ... but the reality is that Australians have an almost religious attachment to cricket and the idea of fair play. Yes the Australian fan will squeal and point fingers accusingly when players from other nations cheat, but he has no expectation that those players will be punished by their boards or public. If one of their own cheats, though, that player is as good as dead ... to select these players again would be akin to John Hewson entering THAT election with the dead cat of GST hanging around his neck, while previously loyal voters ran screaming for the exits. Within 24 hours of this recent event, 89% of the polled Australian public wanted Smith gone, banned for life. No pissweak ICC sanction was ever going to suffice.

Perhaps Smith's actions and the evolving results might be summarised by the old motto ... if you can't be a good example, you can at least serve as a warning for others. If CA does hand out severe penalties now, and it looks like 12-month bans at a bare minimum for all 3 involved (longer for Warner) the pressure will be on ICC and other boards to act more appropriately if other players are 'caught out' in future.

Fair point that. Oz can set a standard. I mean it won't matter a jot on the subi but after Murali we know that bunch are immune to shaming.

All good thoughtful posts above. Hard but fair is the mantra drilled into kids. The use of performance enhancing drugs by an Aussie Rules team and a Leeeg team prompted outrage. While many felt sorry for the players who were duped and then suspended, the episode remains largely unforgiven and will not be forgiven, other than by die hard fans of these clubs.

In a sense Bancroft is as naive as the Essendon players who trusted their coach and signed non disclosure contracts about the drug taking. I too heard an excerpt of an interview with Trevor Chappell who committed the unpardonable and has borne the brunt for all these decades.

Warner has long been held in low regard. The general antipathy towards him has transcended to outright loathing. I doubt even when allowed he will play cricket in any form in this country. If he has whinges about the Yarpy crowd he should be in no doubt as to the reception he would receive here. He has made a pile of bucks and can live anywhere. He might be just smart enough to find a hidey hole overseas.

Smith apparently* is most contrite. Who knows he might return after a year or two, but will never captain even a pub side again. Oz fans will give him an extremely difficult time if he does play cricket again. He's a bloke who always seemed to love playing the game. I doubt he will find that love again.

Maybe the response of Oz fans is informed by the tall poppy syndrome. When public figures are found to have feet of clay their time in peoples affections is severed. A former Deputy PM resigned in disgrace earlier this year. This bloke was thought well of by many folk, not now. His life, that of his family and partner are now severely frayed.

Schadenfreude is a strange feeling. LN2's post perfectly captures the self doubts one has in these moments. Happily I don't see Growler, LN2, Furri, Beamer, PCS and many other non Oz posters sinking the boots in.

There is a touch of 'emperor's new clothes' about this saga. And Australians aren't big raps for chest-banging bogus hard men who turn out to be full of BB&B. Or 'leaders' who let them rip like brats in Woolies because they haven't the cohunas to exercise their authority..

Great series of posts above, including the OP.

Of course we all like to troll Aussies, they're perfect targets most of the time.

But it just makes me sick reading the possible range of punishments for your players - as described by lardie and horrie. It's horrific.  One year to life time bans? Trevor C level of disgrace? Come on guys, that's not on.

CA should cut down on sledging, 'head butting the line', and related nonsense.  

But FFS stop making this an operatic examination of Australian ethics. 

Treat your guys with some humanity and in particular I am almost sure Warner needs to be given more consideration- as of the publicly available information out there now, IMO he's being lynched.

Smith will be back - hopefully for next summer. A six month ban and a NTCAA will still be a massive punishment for what is ultimately a relatively minor offence.

Bancroft will proabably get the same punishment but I doubt he will be back in Australian colours for a while. He is not Smith with the bat and it will be easy to select others.

Warner may make the decision easy. He could get a year suspension (the equivalent of what Warne got for his drug offence) but spit the dummy and turn into a Chris Gayle and just play the T20 circuit. I think he will be allowed to do this as a bit of a bribe for him not to go totally rogue and spill all the beans about what happens in the dressing room. I think CA (and probably other Boards and the ICC as well) are a little bit terrified about that prospect.

I believe MrK is closer to the eventual (tonight?) mark.

I think Smith will get a sizeable ban but be back down the track, Bancroft perhaps not such a big penalty and will also be back, at least at State level, and Warner will, on the back of a large ban, do the mercenary walk.

skully wrote:I believe MrK is closer to the eventual (tonight?) mark.

I think Smith will get a sizeable ban but be back down the track, Bancroft perhaps not such a big penalty and will also be back, at least at State level, and Warner will, on the back of a large ban, do the mercenary walk.

Meanwhile Ben Stokes is happily playing for England having put a guy in hospital a few months ago and facing criminal charges (to which he pleaded not guilty).

Smith won't be back, and what are the rules with the IPL? Does a ban impact it?

NOC still subject to cricket Australia

tricycle wrote:NOC still subject to cricket Australia

That will make it really interesting. Doesn't the Nipl start in a week or two.

It is difficult to imagine Oz could endorse them playing there while banning them here. But then it is CA we are talking about, a mob which makes Trump a paragon of virtue by comparison.

Maybe as suggested above, CA will do a deal enabling Seasick and gcspoc to play in The Nipl. Maybe the BCCI and broadcasters think it will be good for business and the ratings.

If CA doesn't do the deal, the repercussions will be interesting. If gcspoc does spill whatever beans there are to spill, he best leave the country. If knuckle dragging bogan cheats are widely detested here, those that squeal are considered beyond the pale.

I would hope CA will prevent them playing in the International Pirates League. Stuff them, they don't deserve to be paid after what they've done. The financial loss should be part of the penalty.

lardbucket wrote:I would hope CA will prevent them playing in the International Pirates League. Stuff them, they don't deserve to be paid after what they've done. The financial loss should be part of the penalty.

The head of Qantas has described discomfort seeing Seasick at the presser with their logo. Buyer beware!

In breaking news, Makita have come on board to replace Qantas.

They want the world to see their tools; and they've found the perfect display environment.

lardbucket wrote:In breaking news, Makita have come on board to replace Qantas.

They want the world to see their tools; and they've found the perfect display environment.

Gold ... With a massive diamond inset.

horace wrote:

lardbucket wrote:I would hope CA will prevent them playing in the International Pirates League. Stuff them, they don't deserve to be paid after what they've done.   The financial loss should be part of the penalty.

The head of Qantas has described discomfort seeing Seasick at the presser with their logo. Buyer beware!

Actually I am surprised that no one has commentated on him wearing the baggy green.

BradmanSmith won't be back, and what are the rules with the IPL?  Does a ban impact it?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

Beg pardon guv'nor, I thought you were asking for rules with IPL. My bad.

furriner wrote:BradmanSmith won't be back, and what are the rules with the IPL?  Does a ban impact it?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

Beg pardon guv'nor, I thought you were asking for rules with IPL. My bad.

He plays for Rajasthan Royals.

I don't foresee a problem.

Rajasthan Royals won't have a problem with him playing, but CA might,a nd should.

'play with them and you can forget Test cricket forever'

(take your medicine now, and you might yet be rehabilitated)

If Warner gets a ban and CA also gives him a NOC the fix is definitely on.

JGK wrote:

skully wrote:I believe MrK is closer to the eventual (tonight?) mark.

I think Smith will get a sizeable ban but be back down the track, Bancroft perhaps not such a big penalty and will also be back, at least at State level, and Warner will, on the back of a large ban, do the mercenary walk.

Meanwhile Ben Stokes is happily playing for England having put a guy in hospital a few months ago and facing criminal charges (to which he pleaded not guilty).

A non-cricket related incident - you can’t pre-empt the country’s official justice system.

taipan wrote:

furriner wrote:BradmanSmith won't be back, and what are the rules with the IPL?  Does a ban impact it?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

Beg pardon guv'nor, I thought you were asking for rules with IPL. My bad.

He plays for Rajasthan Royals.

I don't foresee a problem.

Meanwhile two great Test series are almost completely sidelined from the news.