West Indies v England, 2nd Test, North Sound, 31 January - 4 February, 2019

Yeah, and he’d probably bat at 6

horace wrote:

Growler wrote:It'll do no good beams.

Alastair Cook was generally as bad as the rest of them for most of the last two years.

May be better getting our second best out of retirement. Gooch may be 65, but I'd put good, hard cash on him scoring more than the current lot ....

Bit tough on Gooch. Given Pom selection policy, he'd have to learn to keep as well.

Get 'im a pair of gloves.

Fook me, at 75/4 I won't be surprised at another innings defeat. We still need 44 .....

We’ve made them bat again, great... it won’t be an innings whitewash to the 8th best Test side in the world. Give them all ****** knighthoods.

They have to send out a message for the dead rubber third match, fly out a bunch of youngsters and say show us what you’ve got.

Where does this rank in our worst tours ever? Top three, surely.

Hadn’t realised that we only have one batsman averaging over 40 now. The Bell idea perhaps has some merit to it.

Crikey, that ended with a whimper.

Did the pitch act up??

Reading the Dickinfo commentary, there appeared to be little will for a fight from Blighty.

Hearty congrats to the Ganjas for their first series win over the Poms in 10 years.

Watching that with mates at the pub was almost as painful as having teeth pulled. After the debacle a k a the first test i really thought we'd show some bottle.
Just maybe it's time the away teams had choice to bat or bowl? Not sure we'd have done much better even then.
What will be our top 7 versus Aus then, fellas? Do even our selectors have the first clue right now?

I think we have to go either one way or the other:

1) Pick some orthodox batsmen (if there are any) and try and play traditional Test cricket.
2) Pick the one-day side and try to score 400 off 50 overs.

At the moment, we’re going for a halfway house approach that achieves nothing.

beamer wrote:Where does this rank in our worst tours ever? Top three, surely.

Hadn’t realised that we only have one batsman averaging over 40 now. The Bell idea perhaps has some merit to it.

I R Bell the forgotten glorious past and golden future of Pomgolian cricket,

This makes sense.

Note for Skully. The Bravo 50 is the third slowest in Test history. He suppressed his natural game for his team.

Suddenly the Ashes don't seem so bleak.

furriner wrote:

furriner wrote:You know the game's probably going to be totally one sided when Jimmy "Miserable B@stard" Anderson talks up the oppo to drum up interest.

Jimmy Anderson warns of West Indies’ big incentive to beat England

Sometimes I frighten myself with my cricketing acumen.

In all of Furriner's cricket watching years, now running into the 4th decade, Furriner has not been so spectacularly wrong.

Furriner speaks of himself in the third person so that this magnificent accomplishment can stand on its own, perhaps come alive and start foruming here.

But you know what? Basically Furriner was right. The game was one sided, exactly as predicted.

And I hate to admit it but Anderson was right too.

furriner wrote:

furriner wrote:

furriner wrote:You know the game's probably going to be totally one sided when Jimmy "Miserable B@stard" Anderson talks up the oppo to drum up interest.

Jimmy Anderson warns of West Indies’ big incentive to beat England

Sometimes I frighten myself with my cricketing acumen.

In all of Furriner's cricket watching years, now running into the 4th decade, Furriner has not been so spectacularly wrong.

Furriner speaks of himself in the third person so that this magnificent accomplishment can stand on its own, perhaps come alive and start foruming here.

But you know what?  Basically Furriner was right.  The game was one sided, exactly as predicted.

Pure gold.

Furri, any chance of your business diversifying. I am thinking of life-sized depictions of Langer. These would be voodoo dolls.

I told you it would finish in three days. 

horace wrote:Furri, any chance of your business diversifying. I am thinking of life-sized depictions of Langer. These would be voodoo dolls.

You name it, we make it, we set it on fire.

For a small consideration.

Fun Trivia fact.

With this ignominious defeat, England chalked up an interesting stat- England is the first country to lose 300 Tests.

England's average partnership over the two tests is sixteen.

Onya Windies!

Jings!

It doesn't seem long since Aussie fans were lamenting the state of their Test team/squad. No doubt also dreading the next Ashes (simply because a defeat there still hurts most of all).

What a difference a fortnight can make.

Oz seem to have been faring pretty okay at home vs SL.

Whereas the England Historical Batting Collapse Circus is back in town with a bang (and a whimper). The Clown Troupe has surpassed itself this time. (Most England batting collapses have been from a half-way promising position.) And it's not only the performers under the Big Top, waving a wedge of willow around for no discernible serious purpose, as if it were a new slapstick. Also the host of directors, ringmasters & trainers supposedly managing the show.

Fair play to the WIndies. They suddenly appear to have hit on the makings of a good Test team, at least on home soil.

But England. Michty me.

Clever selectors making clever selections. Rightly praised for intelligent, probing flexibility in Sri Lanka, they appear not to have realised that sticking doggedly to pretty much the same plan in fundamentally different conditions (okay, it's ... hot ... in both parts of the world), against a different opposition with different strengths is no longer, intelligent, probing flexibility, but the opposite.

Discovering (partly by accident, but they took him) a new batting star in Foulkes, despite that making three non-bowling keepers & cramping bowling options in the XI (I repeat: ideally, you need seven players in the team who can bowl to Test standard, to cover all eventualities - NOT seven bowlers: seven who can bowl to Test standard if required). Bringing spinners to the fore, Leach the newly-discovered specialist, Moeen in *his preferred* second-spinner role, also Rashid and with Root as back-up ,and standing down two quicks to accommodate keepers and spinners. Trusting Curran to keep producing the goods with both bat and ball.

And stuck pretty much to the same formula for the First Test of the current series. Except, promoting Curran to open the bowling (hmmm), and dropping the specialist spinner. The played six batsmen (<- perhaps in inverted commas?) including the three keepers, three batting-bowling all-rounders ... and two specialist bowlers. Rashid being one of them.

Okay, I might have given Jennings one more chance too. Though he is, it seems, a Subcontinental specialist at best. But dropping Leach, leaving two specialist bowlers. And when the tall Broad was grooving it nicely, it was reported, off his new shorter run-up. Just two specialist bowlers. And one of them Rashid.

So, damage done, Broad was reinstated for the Second Test, for Rashid. Leach still out. After the hit had been taken, as you were. And the beat went on.

It's rare enough a Test side plays two Tests in a row with barely a clear redeeming feature evident.

But while there have been (literally) three or four decent innings out of the 40/44 innings so far for England - as has been shown before, packing a line-up with "batsmen" doesn't guarantee a lot of batting, it tends to put a hell of a lot of pressure on the fewer specialist bowlers, and often dilutes the determination / application of "rival" players notionally holding a "bat" -and while there have been three or four decent bowling performances spread over two Tests - England now look about as hapless as any side in Test cricket. Clowns excel in pratfalls.

"Okay smartarse - so what's the solution?"

Well, I suppose those who are out there, particularly the seasoned ringmasters and sage directors of the show, should know.

But ... do they?

For the dead rubber, it may be too late to turn a capsized ship around. (Though that happens too in the odd game that is cricket!)

But for starters, a half-way intelligent - flexible, learning - strategy might be to return to some semblance of a balanced Test side, with roles, positions and identity a bit more defined.

e.g.

1. Burns (borrowed time already, but...)
2. Denly (having been given one Test.... Like Finch, not having opened in red-ball cricket for four years. But still ...)
3. Bairstow (to be seen if he fits there - might be better opening once this fiasco is over)
4. Root (poorly as he is batting, and - at least off the field, so to speak - captaining too)
5. Moeen (at least faute de mieux)
6. Stokes (5 is simply too high)
7. Buttler, or Foakes + (6 may be a bit high, 8 is too late)
8. Woakes, or Curran
9. Leach
10. Broad
11. Anderson

Yes, I know, more than half of those have been failing. But the team - and the obdurate selectors - have been failing worse. The team needs some coherent shape and sense of purpose, at least to make a third drubbing less farcical.

PS: I sincerely hope the WIndies make it this time round, and go from strength to strength, with added young input. Test cricket has missed them too long.

Fair to say that Root has lost some of his lustre?

Maybe we could send them Hick, to be their Batting Coach.

You've got my vote, BA.

skully wrote:You've got my vote, BA.

.... and mine. We could also toss in a swap of the senior national coaches  .

Theirs is a dubber too. 

Of course Bayls would have to promise that Ima, Oscar and Lucinda, Weed and Sneaky Pete would not comprise the bulk of the batting line-up.

JGK wrote:Suddenly the Ashes don't seem so bleak.

You can put your dollars on them right now with total safety. Although i see the bookmakers i use have now got Australia favourites.

Peter CS, your team is about as good as we will find. It still looks horribly out of form, confidence and balance to me though.
If we win the Ashes i have told my neighbour i will buy him and his 10 year old lad a season ticket to see Newcastle. Yes i know that seems a cruel thing to do in some people's eyes but they're both fanatics. My money is safe and going nowhere.