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Six Nations 2020

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tricycle
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Post by PeterCS Mon 24 Feb 2020, 17:34

Well I never.

For once, England come out of the traps playing a fast, accurate pressure game ... and see what happens. Even Ben Youngs didn't do his usual at scrums & rucks: lay hands on the ball on the floor first, then start to look around for about 6 minutes to see what the options were or eventually catch opposition mugs offside (or maybe bore them to death?) before finally releasing. He got on with it, like a proper scrum half does. And Ford's flaws (even though he made a few poor judgment calls, and I wouldn't trust him to bring even me down in a tackle) didn't really show up, given the relentless pace with which the home side put Ireland under pressure in the first half.

That said, it was amazing to see the lack of power in the Irish side, esp. in that first half. If I'd not known better, I'd have thought England were for some reason playing in green and Ireland in white: that first half was the exact reverse of how games between these sides are often started. Had Eddie Jones (cantankerous old bugger he's become btw - the whole bastard world has got it in for him, he seems to think) got someone to slip bromide in the away side's tea before the match? So too, the respective pace and purposiveness of the opposing half-back partnerships: inversion of the usual run of things. Poor old Murray and Sexton seemed to have put their boots on the wrong feet. Astonishing to see Sexton in particular that far off. He's said before he finds Twickenham difficult, swirling wind, etc. But wow.

And even though England slipped into their old problem of indiscipline in the second half ....

all in all, very much as I did not expect.


So, Lawes MotM - at flanker. "Take that!", says Jones, a Tyson Fury of words. Fact is, with the whole team playing around him at pace and with pressure, he didn't really need to play as a wing forward, making the fast bursts and breaks with the ball and dashes to get to the opposition halves as you'd expect of a #7 (or even, if less often a #6). His ball carries, rucking, tackles etc. were exactly those of a third lock in the middle of a swarming team.

I like Lawes a lot as a guy. He speaks well in interview. Modest, self-deprecating even, coolly articulating how he sees the game and his role in the team. Exactly the opposite of the arrogant, blindly bullish & (for want of a better word) thick type that may be effective, but is pretty depressing to hear in any sport.

btw: I wish Farrell would at last "cop on to himself". A brilliantly skilled, totally committed player, valuable, sometimes invaluable to his team. But sometimes he just loses it. Red mist is a counter-productive type of aggression - and though that's easy to say by someone pontificating from the sidelines like me here, he really should know that giving away senseless penalties in good positions for his team, risking getting sent off, is hardly a good use of power. When the will to win tips over into a death wish, it's too late. But he should by now have taken stock, of what works, and what is insane.


As for his dad. I don't know if this result was a setback for him. It's only his third match. Clearly, he and his roster of coaches weren't able to prepare the Men in Green properly for what happened. For what reason, and with what degree of responsibility on their part as opposed to the players', I don't know. But he's another who speaks well. He has big shoes to fill - Schmidt's - and we'll see how things develop. But on a personal level, with that degree of calm honesty & generosity post-match, I'd wish him all the best.


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Post by PeterCS Sat 07 Mar 2020, 03:08

Oh - we're up again.

Stoopid inconsistent programming of this championship. If every weekend for 5 weeks is too demanding physically, why not every second weekend for 10 weeks? As it is, it's stop-start-start-stop-stop ... no sort of rhythm, or regular momentum.

As for the matches: with Covid19 the winner with a bonus point in the Italian match (postponed), England v Wales and then (Sunday) Scotland v France:

Which England team will turn up? They have a chance if they play as against Ireland, for sure. But perhaps, having performed to high levels as underdogs, and so once again fancied (by the unwary) to prevail, they can return to as you were: as fumbling, crumbling, butterfingered favourites. Who knows?

France are on a roll. But - inadequate a coach as Townsend is - I think Scotland have a chance, provided they embrace that same Underdogs status and give it some stampeding welly. As Scots often can, only in adversity. ~ However, if they don't do a Guinness ad, and "BELIEVE", then they could come in for a high-tailed Gallic cock slapping.


I hope you weren't expecting any predictions from me. I just read as far as I can see. I'm no visionary.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2020, 13:01

It will be least messy if France wrap it up in the next two games. Otherwise it’s a case of come back in the autumn for a couple of bonus point turkey shoots in Rome, which would be a most unsatisfactory conclusion.

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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2020, 18:38

England have to play rugby league for the last 6 minutes... surely a 17-point lead is enough?

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Post by PeterCS Sat 07 Mar 2020, 20:16

Only just. They played too much "Rugby league" in the last few minutes, at least in the sense of red mist and bits of gamesmanship.

But though England betrayed many of the same old faults I've mentioned above, e.g. of badly-channelled aggression that gave away position, points and forfeits of personnel from the full 15-man team, dead slow play, also some bad tactical judgment calls and so on (thank the lord for Watson, Slade, Cowan-Dickie, three of the standouts, the persistent, focused attacking dangers), the team tackled and generally conducted the game with England rugby's traditional virtues of determination, power and resilience. And showed spasms of line-breaking & line-turning adventure.

It was all just enough in the end.

Dallaglio is a doofus. It shows that all the experience in the world does not automatically confer insight, wisdom or originality in reading the game.

The ref also gave an abject lesson, in how not to ref. (Though I don't blame him for the rushes of blood to the head - aka personal & coaching indiscipline - esp of the usual hotheaded, irresponsible suspects.)

It was good to see Wales back to full strength at last. L Williams, Navidi rejoining North, Halfpenny etc. ... FWIW I don't think this is as bad a season for the as the end results so far suggest. (Despite Jonathan Davies' usual pathetic whingeing whenever it goes against the land that fills his heart and, a bit too often, his mind.) It's a rebuild, realignment. If Pivak knows what he's doing, they could soon again be able to take on the best and - this time - win.


So - France to wrap things up? I agree with beamer: a delay until whenever, September??, would let all the air out of the tyres of the competition.
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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2020, 22:07

Bizarrely, Wales with a 1-3 record have the best points difference... I know, they’ve played Italy and hardly anyone else has, but still...

Both England and Wales perhaps have to move on from a few who won’t be around for the next World Cup. The Irish too... France are showing them the way, and it’s bearing fruit more quickly than expected.

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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2020, 22:27

The red card, by the way... no intent there at all, that was yellow at most. Would the ref have given that, say, 20 minutes in, and effectively handed Wales the match?

Does a red in the last 10 minutes have any extra implications compared to a yellow, anyway? For example, a ban from future matches?

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Post by beamer Sat 07 Mar 2020, 23:07

And, of course, a comparatively rare Triple Crown for England, only the third since 2003 (Ireland have five and Wales four in that time). In the recent decade of French weakness, Triple Crown has typically meant Grand Slam, but this time the lesser honour stands alone, though the Championship itself could yet accompany it.

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Post by tricycle Sun 08 Mar 2020, 06:49

beamer wrote:The red card, by the way... no intent there at all, that was yellow at most. Would the ref have given that, say, 20 minutes in, and effectively handed Wales the match?

Does a red in the last 10 minutes have any extra implications compared to a yellow, anyway? For example, a ban from future matches?
Generally 4 weeks. Should be reduced to 2. Definitely a red under the new rules, imo.

The scrum at the end was a cock up. How long does O'Keefe keep a knock on advantage? Yellow was deserved as well. Marler should get 12 weeks as well for his testickle.

Wales have scant regard for the HIA.

Just my opinion, but I think England's game management sucks. The kicks out on the full against Scotland, and the stupid penalty conceded post 40 yesterday (And the immediate second half try to a lesser extent).

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Post by beamer Sun 08 Mar 2020, 10:28

Yeah, not kicking it out was crazy, sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and bank what you have.

So often as well they have possession and territory and fail to convert it into points. Of course everyone wants to see tries, but there’s nothing wrong with three points, it’s a lot better than zero. Kick the straightforward penalties, rather than keep banging on the door then coughing it up. Use the drop goal, especially when it’s a freebie under penalty advantage - Farrell should be knocking those over for fun like Wilkinson did.

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Post by tricycle Sun 08 Mar 2020, 17:07

Is it as prevalent these days overall? I didn't used to watch much back then.

France turned up today. Absolutely shocking.

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Post by beamer Sun 08 Mar 2020, 18:16

What, the drop goal? Seems to be pretty rare nowadays... Farrell has just 3 international DGs to his name, and Johnny Sexton 4, whereas Wilkinson landed 36 and Ronan O’Gara 15. I remember when they were worried about it dominating the game and talking of reducing it to 1 or 2 points. I don’t recall seeing one at all in this year’s 6N. It’s a difficult skill, but an invaluable one if you can master it, as far as I see it.

And yeah, France didn’t turn up today, though the brainless red card probably proved the difference. Assuming England and Ireland eventually get BP wins against Italy, France need a convincing win against Ireland, whereas for the Irish, just winning next week may well be enough for a fourth title in seven years.

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Post by skully Mon 23 Mar 2020, 04:37

Is this dead?
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Post by PeterCS Mon 23 Mar 2020, 22:32

Putatively to be completely around October. But who knows?
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Post by PeterCS Mon 23 Mar 2020, 22:53

Or even completed.

But who knows?
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Post by skully Mon 23 Mar 2020, 22:56

WHO indeed.
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Post by Bradman Thu 26 Mar 2020, 11:19

Finish it up for the tv money in six months but seriously big effn Asterix.
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Post by skully Fri 17 Apr 2020, 10:07

Will Castle survive 2020?
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Post by beamer Sat 06 Feb 2021, 18:45

Scotland stun England at Twickenham... first time in 38 years. France look champions in waiting, with Wales and Ireland meeting in the clash of the fading forces tomorrow.

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Post by beamer Sat 13 Feb 2021, 23:30

After a dismal year or so, Wales have shown up when it matters in typical fashion. Playing against 14 men two weeks running certainly helps though... a Grand Slam showdown with France in the final week already looks on the cards, if the French can take care of a depleted Ireland and both see off a jaded looking England.

A few moments from Eddie Jones’s men today, but not the statement cricket score that would have sent out a message they were still contenders. Allowing players to stay at disgraced and inactive Saracens and still be eligible for selection was a big mistake.

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Post by beamer Sat 27 Feb 2021, 18:47

Luckiest Triple Crown ever for Wales, two red cards and some “generous” refereeing today effectively handing them the wins when they could easily have lost all three.

Still shouldn’t take away the attention from an awful performance from England, having dragged themselves back to level it up they had all the momentum then gave away a series of stupid - and kickable - penalties. Wales never cut loose yet they racked up 40. Eddie Jones surely can’t survive defeats to France and Ireland and a fifth place finish, but that looks odds-on.

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Post by beamer Mon 15 Mar 2021, 10:47

England back on form to derail the French Grand Slam bid, while Scotland lose another tight one. Farrell and Sexton’s flawless kicking made the difference, and sent out messages to the Lions selectors (who have at least four decent options at number 10 to choose from...)

Wales take the honours if they can see off France, regardless of the latter’s postponed game still to be rescheduled.

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Post by beamer Mon 14 Mar 2022, 10:07

So, this year…

England still caught between the old and the new, and seemingly drifting to a directionless end to the Eddie Jones era. Put up a brave fight with 14 men but could yet end up fifth again.

France and Dupont look a class apart at times but they’re still vulnerable with the pressure on, and England I suppose have a puncher’s chance of doing Ireland a big favour. If the Irish seal the Triple Crown against the “Spursy” Scotland then a French defeat or perhaps even draw would see them as champions.

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Post by PeterCS Tue 15 Mar 2022, 13:59

France deserve to win it.

Shaun Edwards' input has been invaluable.


However:

Should England play their underdog role and pull off a surprise, in spite of the deadening weight of E Jones, then Ireland would deserve to win through by default.
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Post by beamer Tue 15 Mar 2022, 15:28

France and Ireland look genuine World Cup contenders, even if we have to allow for the fact that the French don’t deal with expectation well and the Irish have never really turned up at the big one.

Still 18 months or so to go but the Southern Hemisphere sides all looked beatable last autumn.

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