* The great Freddie Flintoff debate *

I like Dello's Rashid idea for the bottom order. Though Panesar has come through in this Test and could well have a good summer too.

The top order is tricky. On the one hand, I think it must be incredibly hard for Vaughan to captain for a whole innings and then come straight in to bat as opener. You've got to be mentally tired. For that reason, I'd probably bat him at 3 again.

But on the other hand:

Cook opening: Average - 40.84

Cook at 3: Average - 52.55

Growler wrote:What wouldn't we give to have any 3 of the current crop in the mould of Atherton, Stewart and Nasser? They put such a high price on their wicket, it was rare indeed to hear a commentator utter the words "stupid shot" when any of them were dismissed.

Three players whose career averages certainly don't do them justice. They played their cricket in one of the greatest eras of fast bowling, facing all those greats with the new ball on often shocking English pitches at that time. And each of them at times with the added responsibility of captaincy, carrying a weak batting line-up and in Stewart's case keeping wicket and batting everywhere from 1 to 7.

You'd take any of them in their prime now instead of one of the current "40 Club"... just like some have said about Fleming this week, averages often don't tell the full story.

Jimmy approaching his century...

Of all the keepers who've been picked since Stewart retired, and names being thrown about as possible candidates - I have 2 observations

1. I doubt any of them will nail down the place to reach 60 test matches ... half the number Stewart played, and

2. I'll be surprised if they'll come within 5 runs of his 39.55 average either.

There may be better keepers (Read?) - but his batting is poop, and there may be better batsmen (maybe Prior over time?) but worse keepers ....... but I can't see one being as good overall over such a long period of time.

Growler wrote:Of all the keepers who've been picked since Stewart retired, and names being thrown about as possible candidates - I have 2 observations

1. I doubt any of them will nail down the place to reach 60 test matches ... half the number Stewart played, and

2. I'll be surprised if they'll come within 5 runs of his 39.55 average either.

There may be better keepers (Read?) - but his batting is poop, and there may be better batsmen (maybe Prior over time?) but worse keepers ....... but I can't see one being as good overall over such a long period of time.

Prior is so not a patch on Alec Stewart it's quite unfunny. Stewart, purely as an opener, is IMO up there with Anwar, Taylor and Slater as a top opener of the 90's. He used to flay the best around to all parts, probably the best cover drive I've ever seen.

Quite so Danny. Were it not for taking the gloves for half his career, I feel he may well have had an average around the 45 mark.

I'm saying maybe Prior ? He's close to Stewarts average in both tests and FC matches, and has years ahead of him against weaker bowling on the whole.

As I said though - I don't think any of them come near as far as both disciplines go .... not at the moment anyhow.

Growler wrote:Quite so Danny. Were it not for taking the gloves for half his career, I feel he may well have had an average around the 45 mark.

He would have been one of the great post-war England openers. Hutton, Boycott, Edrich, Gooch, Stewart.