Pick a "clean slate" England team

No no, that won't do.

They have at least to pass muster as human.

Even if Matty P looks like an alien with tombstones for teeth much of the time.

beamer wrote:Rules: Must be England qualified, currently registered for county cricket and not officially retired from international cricket. No more than 4 (edit to make it slightly easier!) players retained from the side that played this match. Let's see what people come up with!

Cook
Key
Vaughan
Pietersen
Shah
Rashid
Flintoff
Read+
Sidebottom
Tremlett
Anderson

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:I'll go with: -

Key
Strauss*
Shah
Pietersen
Patel
Flintoff
Davies+
Broad
Swann
Tremlett
Hoggard

Looks a fair side, BBB.

They all look shat to me, especially Bobs.

4 out, all out...

Lanky First XI.

Fill up the furriners' spots with the best of the Yorkies.

Ramprakash

JKLever wrote:They all look shat to me...

In comparison to the actual XI who in no way look shat...

Key
Strauss*
Shah
Pietersen
Sales
Flintoff
Foster
Rashid
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard

Ah - in times of crisis, call for the fat lads.

Dello wrote:Ah - in times of crisis, call for the fat lads.

Farking right.

You need Bres in there for Broad, Smerfy.

beamer wrote:

Dello wrote:

Demelza wrote:Someone remind me what's wrong with Hoggard again?

Became obsolete once Sidebottom came into the side and did the same job only much better and with a bit more zip.

Another poor Ashes in Australia, a bowling average in the mid-thirties over a sustained period of time, and an increasing injury-proneness helped usher Hoggard out of the door, too.

If we had a great crop of young bowlers coming through that would have been fair enough. But I still think he would do a better job than those out in the Caribbean right now.

Although a typically English swing bowler who you would have expected to be ineffective in unhelpful conditions, he more consistently than anyone else dismissed quality top order batsmen during our golden 18 months, and perhaps for a while after that.

What I liked about Hoggy, apart from his very good strike rate, is that when it didn't swing for him, he became a very accurate stock bowler.

Whereas if it doesn't swing for Jimmy, he becomes toilet.

Key
Smith
Strauss*
Pietersen
Shah
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Rashid
Sidebottom
Hoggard

What about Joycey and Brearley?

PeterCS wrote:What about Joycey and Brearley?

Thought about it!
But Joycey's no longer a Seaaxe whilst Brears is far too preoccupied with delving deep into people's minds!
Gus Fraser could still do a job though ...

Murtagh? Malan? Udal?

PeterCS wrote:Murtagh? Malan? Udal?

Merlin wrote:Key
Smith
Strauss*
Pietersen
Shah
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Rashid
Sidebottom
Hoggard

I know we like recruiting South Africans but that one's a bit optimistic.

JKLever wrote:They all look shat to me, especially Bobs.

4 out, all out...

Aye - was restricted by the retention of four players only . . . and alcohol abuse down the booooooozer.

I also didn't take consider changing the balance of the side, which I think we have to do now - Fred can't bat at 6 in my opinion.

Taking away the restrictions of maximum retainees and current fitness, and thinking it through again this morning, this would actually be my side.

Key
Strauss*
Cook
Pietersen
Shah
Patel
Flintoff
Davies+ (would consider Read again at 8 if he starts the new season well)
Broad
Swann / Jones
Sidebottom

Get Cook back to where he is at his best - 3.
Get rid of the Wobbly Tinker duo and replace with Shah and Blobby.
Drop Harmison, waste of space anyway so replace with another batsmen - Patel, who can turn his arm over as well and try to develop both his batting and bowling.
We need a keeper who can catch with a 4 man attack, so that means cheerio Prior.
Would consider going in without a front line spinner in certain conditions - let's face it we've been doing that whilst carrying the Montster for the last 12 months anyway, so lose nothing there either, and Jones would be just as effective if fit on a wearing pitch anyway.
Rashid might be knocking on the door in a few months too.

If nothing else, the depth to the batting would put us back in the right direction by making us difficult to beat again . . .

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:If nothing else, the depth to the batting would put us back in the right direction by making us difficult to beat again . . .

Are we desperate enough to resort to picking teams to draw Tests now?

Pretty much. We've won one Test against a good side since t'Ashes. That was a dead rubber. Some draws would be a start.

Seeing as we can't take wickets, we've got to start making ourselves hard to beat and enhance our chances of scoring 400+ with regularity. We're basically carrying two or three bowlers per match, so one of them might as well go.

And I'm gonna have to disagree with JK and say every side so far has been better than the current England side.

Augustus wrote:Pretty much. We've won one Test against a good side since t'Ashes. That was a dead rubber. Some draws would be a start.

Seeing as we can't take wickets, we've got to start making ourselves hard to beat and enhance our chances of scoring 400+ with regularity. We're basically carrying two or three bowlers per match, so one of them might as well go.

But we'll still be carrying two or three bowlers each match with a four-man attack, which leaves us with one or two plus part-timers. Remember you don't know which bowlers will be crap before the start of the match, so you have to maximise your options.

You can't get draws against decent opposition now unless the weather intervenes or it's an absolute road of a pitch, the pace they play the game is too fast. Our successful spell was based on a positive approach, perhaps excessively so at times with the batting in the '05 Ashes though we got away with it. Back then we had Strauss mk1, Trescothick, Vaughan, KP and Freddie in there - all batsmen who would take the game to the opposition. Now we've got 4 of the top 5 who just scratch around and hand the momentum to the other side. That's our biggest problem.

beamer wrote:

Big_Bad_Bob wrote:If nothing else, the depth to the batting would put us back in the right direction by making us difficult to beat again . . .

Are we desperate enough to resort to picking teams to draw Tests now?

Yep - the rebuild under Nasser and Fletcher started by grinding out the results and making ourselves hard to beat.

Time to rebuild in similar fashion . . . we're lurching headlong towards being pretty much as bad.

I'm pleased Ace wasn't picked. Doesn't have that particular blemish on his record now.

I think you can be sure in picking Flintoff and Sidebottom that you have two bowlers who aren't going to be carried. Play Broad and Swann/Rashid on top of them and I think we've got as much in the attack with four men as we do with five at the moment. The obsession with a five-man attack is clearly hurting us at a time when we don't have five men good enough to take wickets. In the match just gone, Flintoff, Stuey and Sidebottom all offered something. Harmison bowled mid-pace dross but luckily got some wickets, Panesar was all over the place. Get rid of them and tighten up the batting. If we can't score 400 then it doesn't matter how good or shit the bowling is.