Re: The EPL thread (I)

[Merlin]

If Chelsea are so sh!t then how come Arsenal have consistently finished about 25 points behind them for the last 3 seasons?

3 seasons???
Oh well, ECL finals don't really count I guess...
Mark my words, the Chelski wheel-nuts are loose ... give 'em anothe decent season before the mafia fark off to forage in La Liga.

[JKLever]

I could show you a stat that would say Robin Smith was a better player than David Gower. Means nout.

[Gary 111]

Gary. Interesting article and true of some midfielders but not Lampard. If you actually watch him play.

As far as I can tell, Charlton was a very similar player to Lampard, though of course, a better one.

Well both weren't shy of a shot or two. Think Bobby was a much better dribbler though, and of course had a more fashionable hairdo.

The thing about Lampard to me is that he can only play one way - that is why he isn't world class. Whereas Barry seemed to adapt his game to the situation of the match and to accomodate Gerrard when both of them play together they just never seem to work.

The answer? Successive England manager's haven't found one. Better coaching maybe, or maybe its an ego thing that they both think they're the best. The only solution if this is the case is to drop one of them. And i'd pick Gerrard of the two every time.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

A tale told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

There's no point arguing with these people.

I'm right. You're wrong. There is no argument that can adequately make the case that Lampard isn't world class.

Now feck off.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Gary. Interesting article and true of some midfielders but not Lampard. If you actually watch him play.

As far as I can tell, Charlton was a very similar player to Lampard, though of course, a better one.

Well both weren't shy of a shot or two. Think Bobby was a much better dribbler though, and of course had a more fashionable hairdo.

The thing about Lampard to me is that he can only play one way - that is why he isn't world class. Whereas Barry seemed to adapt his game to the situation of the match and to accomodate Gerrard when both of them play together they just never seem to work.

The answer? Successive England manager's haven't found one. Better coaching maybe, or maybe its an ego thing that they both think they're the best. The only solution if this is the case is to drop one of them. And i'd pick Gerrard of the two every time.

Lord. Now we're all on the Barry bandwagon. He's a excellent crosser. A decent tackler and a quality passer. He's not Lampard.

Lampard > Gerrard.

[Gary 111]

If Chelsea are so sh!t then how come Arsenal have consistently finished about 25 points behind them for the last 3 seasons?

3 seasons???
Oh well, ECL finals don't really count I guess...
Mark my words, the Chelski wheel-nuts are loose ... give 'em anothe decent season before the mafia fark off to forage in La Liga.

Yes 3 seasons, i'm in the 'anti-Frank' brigade but he's only been there 5 years or so, and the last 3 of them they have been easily superior to Arsenal.

1 Champs league final vs 2 Champs league semi, its half a dozen of one and six of the other really.

There's no way you can say Chelsea aren't one of the best clubs in Europe at the moment, as much as they're a bunch of diving, whinging, Russian-backed mercenaries.

[JKLever]

A tale told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

There's no point arguing with these people.

I'm right. You're wrong. There is no argument that can adequately make the case that Lampard isn't world class.

Now feck off.

And you're the one calling people juvenile FFS?

'There's no point in arguing? I'm right, you're wrong' - yeah - good argument you put up there.

What is this? Some kind of '1984' where we all have to have the same opinion?

[Brass Monkey]

Lampard > Gerrard????

F*ck right off mate, do it now. You're starting to look a shambles. As for your Barry comment, he sh!ts all over Lampard defensively and his link-up play.

[Brass Monkey]

Arrogance... distinct childish, camp hubris.

[Gary 111]

Gary. Interesting article and true of some midfielders but not Lampard. If you actually watch him play.

As far as I can tell, Charlton was a very similar player to Lampard, though of course, a better one.

Well both weren't shy of a shot or two. Think Bobby was a much better dribbler though, and of course had a more fashionable hairdo.

The thing about Lampard to me is that he can only play one way - that is why he isn't world class. Whereas Barry seemed to adapt his game to the situation of the match and to accomodate Gerrard when both of them play together they just never seem to work.

The answer? Successive England manager's haven't found one. Better coaching maybe, or maybe its an ego thing that they both think they're the best. The only solution if this is the case is to drop one of them. And i'd pick Gerrard of the two every time.

Lord. Now we're all on the Barry bandwagon. He's a excellent crosser. A decent tackler and a quality passer. He's not Lampard.

Lampard > Gerrard.

Gerrard is class, Lampard is good but he's not the one (as Roy Walker would say).

[doremi]

Lampard > Gerrard.

No, no he's not.

[Brass Monkey]

Both are world class IMO, but Gerrard is easily the better player.

[JKLever]

Both are world class IMO, but Gerrard is easily the better player.

I'm not sure either are tbh, but agreed with the 2nd bit.

Perhaps we need to define World Class?

[Gary 111]

By definition i'd have thought only about 15-20 of the best players in the world can be 'world class'.

[Brass Monkey]

Hmmm, World Class.
Ranking among the foremost in the world, of an international standard of excellence, of the highest order.

My word mate, if you don't class Gerrard as that I really don't know who you think is.

[JKLever]

Hmmm, World Class.
Ranking among the foremost in the world, of an international standard of excellence, of the highest order.

My word mate, if you don't class Gerrard as that I really don't know who you think is.

Yes, I probably would.

World Class is often used alongside 'great' though....

[Geoffrey Trueman]

Uh oh. After being pretty much proved wrong on the Lampard front, you come up with a childish response like this.

If you can't think of any world class players after Cech and Messi then this discussion is clearly a waste of time as you truly do know very little about football.

Good day.

Having grown up watching the likes of Currie, Worthington, Bowles, Marsh, Gray and Best (ask your Dad), happen I've got a different perspective and slightly higher standards. You see I like my world class players to have a modicum of skill and the ability to play football. Having an 'engine' running up and down a lot scoring the odd goal isn't very high on my list of priorities.

Personally I wouldn't cross the road to watch Lampard play, imo he isn't fit to lace Hoddle, Le Tissier and Gacoignes boots. Unfortunately the modern game decrees he'd get in todays England team before any of them. Sad innit?

[Brass Monkey]

World Class is 'great', it's just how long you maintain that as to how 'great' a player is. For instance, Roy Makaay and Denilson were World Class, therefore 'great' but it hardly lasted long enough for them to be remembered as such.

[Gary 111]

'Great' has too many emotional connetations.

Quite often you find people don't like calling current players great, but after they retire you can.

For instance, you'd happily call Souness great, but not Gerrard. Or in cricket you wouldn't call Pietersen great but you would for a Compton or a Gower.

[Brass Monkey]

'Great' has too many emotional connetations.

Quite often you find people don't like calling current players great, but after they retire you can.

For instance, you'd happily call Souness great, but not Gerrard. Or in cricket you wouldn't call Pietersen great but you would for a Compton or a Gower.

F**k off cloggie. Pietersen and Gerrard are great.

[JKLever]

Fair do's...

And well said Geoffrey. I watched Frans Thijssen as a kid (LLL will probably say who!?) and he had more skill in his little finger than Lamps ever will

[Gary 111]

'Great' has too many emotional connetations.

Quite often you find people don't like calling current players great, but after they retire you can.

For instance, you'd happily call Souness great, but not Gerrard. Or in cricket you wouldn't call Pietersen great but you would for a Compton or a Gower.

F**k off cloggie. Pietersen and Gerrard are great.

Which is exactly my point.

But because they're still playing you'd easily find lots of people who would not accept it.

[Merlin]

World Class is 'great', it's just how long you maintain that as to how 'great' a player is. For instance, Roy Makaay and Denilson were World Class, therefore 'great' but it hardly lasted long enough for them to be remembered as such.

Okay slight bias here ... but what about Bergkamp in the 'world class' collection?
Ball control, inch perfect passes, vision and deft touches in the box.
And he scored plenty ...
A nice guy too with pots of humility.

[JKLever]

See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

[Merlin]

See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

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