Re: The EPL thread (I)

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:23

Yeah, Bergkamp was world class, for me anyway.

Another factor as well is looking at flair vs efficiency.

For example some footballers, e.g. Makelele seems to be the famous one at the moment, are very important to their team. A cricketing equivalent would be someone like Allan Border, never put you on the edge of your seat like a Mark Waugh, or a Veron but they often are worth more to the team.

Are they world class?

by Ash Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:24

Ash wrote:theres a difference between world class and great IMO. lampard, gerrard, beckham, owen are/were all world class but not great. to be a top player at a real top class club consistently over a long period, delivering in europe aswell as the domestic league has to make a world class player. but i suppose it very subjective.

imo in the premiership over the last 5 years or so theres only been one great player - thierry henry.

its taken 12 pages to arrive at the distinction between great and world class when id mentioned it on pg 3. muppets

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:24

Merlin wrote:
JKLever wrote:See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

That better be Jordi he's ahead of...

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:29

Ash wrote:
Ash wrote:theres a difference between world class and great IMO. lampard, gerrard, beckham, owen are/were all world class but not great. to be a top player at a real top class club consistently over a long period, delivering in europe aswell as the domestic league has to make a world class player. but i suppose it very subjective.

imo in the premiership over the last 5 years or so theres only been one great player - thierry henry.

its taken 12 pages to arrive at the distinction between great and world class when id mentioned it on pg 3. muppets

They'll never be a true distinction because they're all subjective tags we put on people.

Only Henry? What about Keane? Vieira? Phil Neville? Shearer? Gerrard?

by Merlin Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:34

Gary 111 wrote:
Merlin wrote:
JKLever wrote:See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

That better be Jordi he's ahead of...

... and his old man, but only just.

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 16:38

Merlin wrote:
Gary 111 wrote:
Merlin wrote:
JKLever wrote:See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

That better be Jordi he's ahead of...

... and his old man, but only just.

Hmm, can't agree with that. Bergkamp was a quality player, but fluttered in and out of games too much for me to be in an all time side.

by JKLever Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:36

Not even in Holland is Bergkamp considered close to being as good as Cruyff

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:43

So, let's do great players in the Premiership.

Zola
Bergkamp
Henry
Cantona
...

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:47

doremi wrote:So, let's do great players in the Premiership.

Zola
Bergkamp
Henry
Cantona
...

Schmeichel & Keane are two more definitely, for starters...

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:51

Gazza? Always had a soft spot for him.

by JKLever Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:52

Why the premiership? Did football only start in 1992?

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 17:55

JKLever wrote:Why the premiership? Did football only start in 1992?

*cough*Since this is the EPL thread.....

by JKLever Wed 19 Sep 2007, 18:04

doremi wrote:
JKLever wrote:Why the premiership? Did football only start in 1992?

*cough*Since this is the EPL thread.....

EPL, meaning 'top division' ?

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 18:07

English Premier League, the last time I checked.

by JKLever Wed 19 Sep 2007, 18:13

Yes, yes but was this thread meant to discuss all things 'top flight' or only 'since 1992'

by Gary 111 Wed 19 Sep 2007, 18:17

JKLever wrote:Yes, yes but was this thread meant to discuss all things 'top flight' or only 'since 1992'

Mainly just Lampard by the looks of things...

by Lara Lara Laughs Wed 19 Sep 2007, 20:08

Merlin wrote:
Gary 111 wrote:
Merlin wrote:
JKLever wrote:See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

That better be Jordi he's ahead of...

... and his old man, but only just.

HAHAHHAHAHAAH.

You're good value, Severus.

by Makaveli Wed 19 Sep 2007, 20:26

doremi wrote:So, let's do great players in the Premiership.

Zola
Bergkamp
Henry
Cantona
...

Giggs has to be in there, V Nistelrooy is another but its debatable.

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 20:33

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:
Merlin wrote:
Gary 111 wrote:
Merlin wrote:
JKLever wrote:See... i'd say Bergkamp was definitely world class.

But is he an all time great?

All time great Cloggie for sure ... ahead of Cruyf for certain.
Would he make an all time great world class XI ?
Probably yes, IMO ...... a defenders nightmare.

That better be Jordi he's ahead of...

... and his old man, but only just.

HAHAHHAHAHAAH.

You're good value, Severus.

Surely you mean Albus?

by Merlin Wed 19 Sep 2007, 20:45

He's not been himself for some time now, doremi!

Anyway, like I said, I'm biased.
Dennis Bergkamp for me.

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 20:49

Another Gunner, not a great probably, but loved to see Overmars always.

by Merlin Wed 19 Sep 2007, 21:05

doremi wrote:Another Gunner, not a great probably, but loved to see Overmars always.

Tended to be lazy when the mood took him IMO.
Not always depenable to turn it on ... like the exiled Swede Ljungberg.
Good in flashes .... not consistent enough.

Go the Gooners - 2-0 up against Seville.
Noice...

by JKLever Wed 19 Sep 2007, 21:07

Utd 1-0 too, Ronaldo back at his old stomping ground

by doremi Wed 19 Sep 2007, 21:09

Nice. Forgot about Europe.

ManU playing Sporting Lisbon.

by Merlin Wed 19 Sep 2007, 21:29

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:
Merlin wrote:That explains a helluva lot.

You're a funny man, Severus. A funny, funny man.

If you're seriously trying to argue that Chelsea aren't one of the best clubs in the world I might just have to track you down and beat you to death with a baseball bat in order to end your suffering.

Just a tiny detail ... but reflective of their respective "supporters" ...

Chelsea vs Rosenborg - Attendance 24,800.

Arsenal vs Seville - Attendance 61,000.

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