Ramps to be recalled

Come on, now, Leo, that's just sick.

This conversation wasn't my idea.

Yeah, would be hard on Shah, considering the bloke who likes to cut on bouncy tracks and the bloke who doesn't score many runs anywhere will probably fail miserably. There's room for them both. Vaughan, then Ramps, Shah at 6. Solid class all the way down... a powerhouse if you will.

holcs wrote:Thickedge in championing a youngster shock.....

For what its worth, I want to win the series in SL, and if Ramps is the man to help us then fark the youngsters.

Well indeed I am. There was a headline saying that England's youngsters had won in Sri Lanka - bit bizarre as the only youngsters actually playing are Mustard and Broad. Cook and Bell are now well established and will have long long England careers.

Surely we need to bring on another young batsman not raid the OAP home like we did all through the late 80s and early 90s.

THICKEDGE wrote:

holcs wrote:Thickedge in championing a youngster shock.....

For what its worth, I want to win the series in SL, and if Ramps is the man to help us then fark the youngsters.

Well indeed I am. There was a headline saying that England's youngsters had won in Sri Lanka - bit bizarre as the only youngsters actually playing are Mustard and Broad. Cook and Bell are now well established and will have long long England careers.

Surely we need to bring on another young batsman not raid the OAP home like we did all through the late 80s and early 90s.

Thickedge.

Who would be the youngsters you would have in your list to go instead of Ramps?

This young lad Ian Bell deserves a go, not sure if you remember him? He's only 25 and has scored stacks of runs against sh!t, limited good attacks.

Batfink Begins wrote:This young lad Ian Bell deserves a go, not sure if you remember him? He's only 25 and has scored stacks of runs against sh!t, limited good attacks.

Disgraceful attack on one of our best players

JKLever wrote:Disgraceful attack on one of our best players

holcs wrote:

THICKEDGE wrote:

holcs wrote:Thickedge in championing a youngster shock.....

For what its worth, I want to win the series in SL, and if Ramps is the man to help us then fark the youngsters.

Well indeed I am. There was a headline saying that England's youngsters had won in Sri Lanka - bit bizarre as the only youngsters actually playing are Mustard and Broad. Cook and Bell are now well established and will have long long England careers.

Surely we need to bring on another young batsman not raid the OAP home like we did all through the late 80s and early 90s.

Thickedge.

Who would be the youngsters you would have in your list to go instead of Ramps?

Hildreth would be my pick for the Test squad to tour Sri Lanka. Denly, Patel and Godleman should also be shown some sort of interest from England -- they should feel that they are close to getting there...

THICKEDGE wrote:

holcs wrote:

THICKEDGE wrote:

holcs wrote:Thickedge in championing a youngster shock.....

For what its worth, I want to win the series in SL, and if Ramps is the man to help us then fark the youngsters.

Well indeed I am. There was a headline saying that England's youngsters had won in Sri Lanka - bit bizarre as the only youngsters actually playing are Mustard and Broad. Cook and Bell are now well established and will have long long England careers.

Surely we need to bring on another young batsman not raid the OAP home like we did all through the late 80s and early 90s.

Thickedge.

Who would be the youngsters you would have in your list to go instead of Ramps?

Hildreth would be my pick for the Test squad to tour Sri Lanka. Denly, Patel and Godleman should also be shown some sort of interest from England -- they should feel that they are close to getting there...

Crikey... fair enough but Hildreth, Denley et al on the back of a good season to go to SL in test matches?????

They haven't hardly played a game yet. I understand you like them young, but you could have at least gone for someone who has a worthwhile case like Bopara?!

Ramps everytime against that bunch.

Hildreth and Denly are where they should be - at the Academy. Patel should be there with them, but his invitation obviuosly got lost in the mail (or he ate it).

That wasn't what I was saying. Hildreth should go on the Lanka test tour. I'm not saying that Denly, Patel and Godleman should be there -- they should know they are being watched keenly by the selectors and one more big season will get them in the England side. They should of course ALL be at the academy.

What I want is to find players who will play 10+ years for England. Cook, Bell, Broad etc injuries permitting may well do that. Since they are performing to the required standard then we should find some more.

Got to live in the now as well though.

No harm in taking Ramps as a one off. It's not like all 6 batting places are held by the ancients is it?!

2009 is 2 years away, what if we could get a good 2 years out of Ramps?

I just think this perrenial search of yours for 10+ years of play means essentially you will always have positions in your side taken up by youth/trialists etc.... You don't win series and become the best team in the world by doing that.

I fone of the youngsters have a couple of exceptional seasons then they deserve a go, but they shouldn't be picked just becasue they are young and visa versa, thats just plain daft. We should pick the players we think will win us series, not pick players incase they have a 10 year international career!

Let's face it; Hildreth, Denly, Patel and Godleman aren't good enough yet. None of them have played two good, full seasons even. Picking one of them to tour Sri Lanka would have been a disaster. Whereas Ramprakash has been the star batsman in County Cricket in consecutive years. Only David Hussey has come close to him this season, and David Hussey's top-class. Why pick a good rookie over an excellent senior, who also has the experience of playing for England?

Ramps may be in his late 30s, but he doesn't half keep fit. I reckon he may have another five years in him yet. He's no Pietersen, but I don't reckon he's any worse than Strauss or Bell. Last month, I did make a point of him having a very poor Test record, but he did play against better bowling attacks in my opinion. I'd personally feel a lot better having him and Shah in the team ahead of Strauss and Bell.

JKLever wrote:Got to live in the now as well though.

No harm in taking Ramps as a one off. It's not like all 6 batting places are held by the ancients is it?!

2009 is 2 years away, what if we could get a good 2 years out of Ramps?

Look, it could work. He's as fit as fiddle and might play on well into his forties - certainly age hasn't diminished his ability in the slightest.

It just seems such a backwards step for a side which is just starting to move forwards from the now-defunct Ashes 2005 team with some new bowling talent coming through, a new opener, all manner of new keepers, new coach, new regime.

I'm not convinced Bopara's ready for Tests yet, but Shah's been outscored only by Ramprakash in domestic cricket in two of the last three years and, at 28 you'd have to figure now is the right moment for him to step up or shut up.

And I suspect the selection for the last place on the touring party will be an either/or situation - if Ramprakash tours, Shah won't. And that's pretty muddled policy when the guy is plainly the next cab off the rank and has been with the England party for getting on for three straight months now.

IMHO, Strauss needs to be dropped for his own good. He's in absolute rubbish form. Let him take a break, he's young and talented enough to come back a stronger cricketer.

Dello wrote:

JKLever wrote:Got to live in the now as well though.

No harm in taking Ramps as a one off. It's not like all 6 batting places are held by the ancients is it?!

2009 is 2 years away, what if we could get a good 2 years out of Ramps?

Look, it could work. He's as fit as fiddle and might play on well into his forties - certainly age hasn't diminished his ability in the slightest.

It just seems such a backwards step for a side which is just starting to move forwards from the now-defunct Ashes 2005 team with some new bowling talent coming through, a new opener, all manner of new keepers, new coach, new regime.

I'm not convinced Bopara's ready for Tests yet, but Shah's been outscored only by Ramprakash in domestic cricket in two of the last three years and, at 28 you'd have to figure now is the right moment for him to step up or shut up.

And I suspect the selection for the last place on the touring party will be an either/or situation - if Ramprakash tours, Shah won't. And that's pretty muddled policy when the guy is plainly the next cab off the rank and has been with the England party for getting on for three straight months now.

Yep, yep - i'm hearing all that. Thats exactly the nagging doubt in the back of my mind!

It would be absolute cock if Ramps selection nudged Shah out of the SL tour.
Can't see it happening ... however, our esteemed selectors have been known to have skewed ideas in the past.

Giles for Panesar anyone?
TWICE ?

We wait with bated breath ....

holcs wrote:I just think this perrenial search of yours for 10+ years of play means essentially you will always have positions in your side taken up by youth/trialists etc.... You don't win series and become the best team in the world by doing that.

I fone of the youngsters have a couple of exceptional seasons then they deserve a go, but they shouldn't be picked just becasue they are young and visa versa, thats just plain daft. We should pick the players we think will win us series, not pick players incase they have a 10 year international career!

There has to be some "investment" in any new selection though. If you've got a 38-year-old who has been a regular for over 10 years, averages 45 and is still good enough, then by all means keep picking him. If you've got one who averages 27 as a batting specialist and hasn't played a Test for 5 or 6 years, what exactly are you likely to gain? There's no guarantee he would get more runs than Shah or Bopara, nor Strauss or Bell for that matter. Even if he justifies the selection by averaging say 10 runs per innings more than one of those, is it really worth it in terms of holding back the development of a younger player? How many Tests are won by less than 20 runs?

I hate to say it but if he's picked I'll find it quite difficult not to be willing him to fail. Watching any England team (cricket, football, rugby) I know you should get behind every player, but sometimes there's a selection decision that just gets to you so much that you want to see the selectors/manager etc. proved wrong even if it's at the expense of the team.

I've never felt test cricket is the best place to develop players.

doremi wrote:I've never felt test cricket is the best place to develop players.

You have to develop them as Test players at some stage though! Or otherwise you would never pick a new player at all, no matter how much experience he had in other forms of the game...

Nobody's talking about throwing in raw 18-year-olds with little or no county experience. Shah is 28, has done well in county cricket and now ODIs, has had a couple of Tests and deserves the chance to develop as a Test player if there's a spot available. Bopara is a fair bit younger, but has already made an impact in ODI cricket, seems to have a good temperament, and sooner or later deserves the chance to prove his worth in the longer format.

beamer wrote:

doremi wrote:I've never felt test cricket is the best place to develop players.

You have to develop them as Test players at some stage though! Or otherwise you would never pick a new player at all, no matter how much experience he had in other forms of the game...

Nobody's talking about throwing in raw 18-year-olds with little or no county experience. Shah is 28, has done well in county cricket and now ODIs, has had a couple of Tests and deserves the chance to develop as a Test player if there's a spot available. Bopara is a fair bit younger, but has already made an impact in ODI cricket, seems to have a good temperament, and sooner or later deserves the chance to prove his worth in the longer format.

Aye correct, however we are not advocating Ramps going for Shah but for Strauss or Bell.

Bopara I don't believe has proved he is or will be a consistent scorer at ODI level...... And therefore would rather Ramps go.. I want to win the series. If there is a deserving young player go for it, but I don't believe there is.

But is there any guarantee that he would score more than, say, Bopara would? Or any other promising young player?

The issue is not just that he's 38, but also that he's had numerous chances in the past and failed. Does averaging 100 in a couple of county seasons, outstanding as that may be, mean he will do the same against Murali on his home pitches? Or would we see the same old Ramprakash, getting a start then getting out? The odds on him succeeding are not strong enough to deny someone younger with a clean slate getting the opportunity.