D-Day 65 Years on .... Lest We Forget

The cities bombed in early February 1945 are the only ones which are hard to justify since they were too close to the end of the war to have much impact on shortening it.

I think those bombings were designed to shorten the war through the use of terror to get the German population onside or promote an uprising.

Either way it didn't work.

No doubt they were payback too.

Easy for people to sit here in 2009 and moralise, but I'd imagine the British population in 1945 saying hit the feckers with all we've got.

Not knocking it. In fact saying they did have a purpose and probably in the pre-text of a war a valid one.

My mum's the biggest peacenik on earth but she won't hear a word against the bombing of Horoshima seeing it meant Dad was never a part of any force trying to invade the Home Islands.

Bradman wrote:The cities bombed in early February 1945 are the only ones which are hard to justify since they were too close to the end of the war to have much impact on shortening it.

I think those bombings were designed to shorten the war through the use of terror to get the German population onside or promote an uprising.

Either way it didn't work.

I'm not sure it didn't work. When you think how fanatical in support of Hitler the German population was through most of the war it is perhaps surprising how meekly they behaved after it finished.

After WW1 many, maybe most, Germans felt that they had not really been defeated and this became recognised as a significant factor in the growth of radical nationalism. At the end of WW2 there was a conscious decision among the allies that this should not happen again. The bombing of the cities, even right up to the end, may have been intended to ensure that no-one on Germany could think that Nazism had not been beaten.

Given what the Germans did to the countries they occupied I don't think too many people would have been sympathetic to their plight (I know my parents weren't).

Dresden may well also have been intended to demonstrate to the Russians what they would encounter if they were tempted to take on the west after Germany was beaten.

ten years after wrote:

Had the war stretched into August would the Americans have used the A-bomb on German cities? I somehow doubt it as, given the way the bombing campaign was going, there would not have been any cities left to bomb.

Bomber Command was winding down by early 1945, and starting to remobilise men into the Infantry, as there was nothing significant left to bomb.

I see the "snub" more simply.

It was the slimy egomaniac Sarkozy's personal attempt to steal limelight and glory, and suck up to Obama with his whole (rather unsightly) face.

It had been generally agreed that the full-scale veterans' commemoration five years ago would be the last - bearing in mind the ageing of the participants, and the increasing difficulties of getting a sizeable turnout.

Sarkozy suddenly decided he wanted a love boost from his population (with whom he has fallen somewhat out of favour, for a mixture of familiar global and also local reasons).

Should Brown immediately have grabbed him by the ... errrm, lapels? Perhaps so. But I think, Merls, your chip is showing slightly v a Labour govt!

But ...

... since the veterans' commemoration was dragged back into a public event, for grubby highly personal political reasons ....

my tribute and gratitude to all those who sacrificed their lives, those who put their lives at stake, and those who lost friends, fellow-sufferers and - as Dello points out - peace of mind and spirit to defend this country, their families, their hoped-for descendants and to the extent they could, their corner of the free world against barbaric, bullying and genocidal tyranny.

Thankfully Sarko was embarrased after a French aide called it a Franco-American occassion.

Obama was then reported to be working at inviting the Queen which embarrased them.

Didn't go down well with the French press that he had snubbed the queen & got up obamas nose.

Nice own-goal/foot-shooting, if that's true.

I must admit I couldn't suppress a wee smile to hear the PM getting booed by he crowd at one point.

It's hard to believe that no senior figure within either the British or French govt made any serious effort to ensure that Her Majesty was invited from the start. The whole world knows that Britain and Canada together sent - and lost - more troops during Overlord than the Americans, so how it could ever be comemmorated as a purely Franco/American event is beyond my ken.

As has been pointed out in an earlier post, Barack Obama was embarrassed at the prospect of there being no Royal being present - and the whole affair has made all concerned look like the pygmies they really are.

The vast majority of todays politicians aren't fit to lace up the shoes of those old soldiers.

Reading this article just makes me angry
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1191371/So-isn-t-mother-Sir-Veteran-quizzes-Charles-Queens-absence-Franco-American-D-Day-commemoration.html

particularly this bit....

Yet the French government had described the event as a ‘Franco-American
occasion’, preferring to invite Tom Hanks, the star of the Hollywood movie
Saving Private Ryan.

And what the fark did that prat Hanks think he was doing even accepting the invitation? I made a movie, therefore I belong here?

Oh dear, Gordy can't get anything right - apparently referred to Omaha Beach as Obama Beach....

tac wrote:And what the fark did that prat Hanks think he was doing even accepting the invitation? I made a movie, therefore I belong here?

Well to be fair Spielberg did put them through a mini boot camp, so they can obviously empathise with guys who actually had real lead coming down range.

JKLever wrote:Oh dear, Gordy can't get anything right - apparently referred to Omaha Beach as Obama Beach....

I think that was the best part of the whole event, JKL . . . kind of highlighted what Sakorzy and the French were really all about . . .

tac wrote:

JKLever wrote:Oh dear, Gordy can't get anything right - apparently referred to Omaha Beach as Obama Beach....

I think that was the best part of the whole event, JKL . . . kind of highlighted what Sakorzy and the French were really all about . . .

Denial mainly tac. Let's face it the last time the French had an offensive success it was a converted fishing boat in Auckland Harbour. And even then the useless bastards couldn't cover it up well enough.

The day after the sacrifice of tens of thousands of men and women in the fight against facism on D Day were commemorated the UK elects its first BNP MEP. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach.

PCS wrote :
But I think, Merls, your chip is showing slightly v a Labour govt!

Maybe so Petey, but the fact of the matter is that Brown did nothing at all to protest or query the snub, so the question has to be asked ... What stopped him? Cowardice ? Ignorance? Or just a deliberate / convenient oversight on his/his advisors part ?

Anyway ... talking about sucking up to the US president ...
According to Brown in his speech to the veterans and the millions on TV, one of the landing sites was on Obama beach ......

I'm not kidding you... he really did say that!

PS Just seen Leve's post above .... sorry for repeating this ... but surely it's worth it !!

british leaders sucking up to the american president. whats new?

Indian Presidents ?

Obama, alternative to O.M.G.

Basil wrote:The day after the sacrifice of tens of thousands of men and women in the fight against facism on D Day were commemorated the UK elects its first BNP MEP. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach.

Yes.

I am also upset to see decorated British Army veterans openely supporting the BNP.

Where did you see that, Rob?

I know they're pissed with our government's attitude towards them in general, and the 65th anniversary in particular - but i never thought I'd read of them supporting such extremists.

The BNP web site has several such testimonials. Unfortunately, decorated soldiers are not always paragons and can be racist too.

And even if they are not, the BNP are very clever at manipulation, packaging themselves as nonracist. You have to delve into their literature to see the racist presuppositions in the language they use.

Only briefly caught a glimpse of the Sky news headlines half an hour ago - did I see nick Griffin covered in Eggs just then?

How would anyone else know what you saw?

But probably... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm