Re: Mark Waugh & Allan Border about Symonds incident

by doctorspin Wed 17 Oct 2007, 14:12

TO has said it. If there were monkey noises at Symonds it really can't be anything other than racist. There needs to be zero tolerance to it whoever the crowd are.

If the Indian Authorities don't mind their setup and crowds being considered comparable to the Central and Eastern Europe soccer fans (and Spain for that matter) then they derserve as much derision and contempt as can be mustered.

by Josh Carney Wed 17 Oct 2007, 23:25

Below are some images of the Indian monkey God "Hanuman". Fortunately or unfortunately Symonds could pose and pass off as one of those statues given his build and chubby cheeks. I recall during school days guys with Chubby cheeks tended to be nicknamed "Hanuman".

I reckon the similarities with the big physique etc. may have had to do with the monkey calls as opposed to anything to do with skin colour.

However I am all for clamping this kind of stuff out. Gives a bad name to a country which is generally known for its tolerance.

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=hanuman+statue+&gbv=2&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

by Gary 111 Wed 17 Oct 2007, 23:40

Mark Waugh & Allan Border about Symonds incident - Page 2 F_mhanuman1m_bdadf0a

To be honest the first thing I say when I see that isn't "F**k me! That's Andrew Symonds!"

by LeFromage Wed 17 Oct 2007, 23:47

Strange combination of weaponry he's chosen to arm himself with: a fork and a doughnut.

by HH_pink Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:05

please don't yell wrote:From what i know while there is always abuse there have never been monkey noises made at any other australian players.

I guess it's just a coincidence that they were made this time to the only black player on the team?

I mean cmon if australian fans make monkey noises towards the west indian team we all know it would be seen as racist abuse.

What do you mean they were made to him? Did the alleged culprits actually call out to Symonds and then start making all those faces and noises? For all you know, it might've been going on around that part of the stands for as long as you don't know but the cameras that 'captured' it, surely looking for sensational material, would've panned to that area only when Symonds was around. Note that Symonds did not actually complain about this thing before the 'reports' started appearing in the press. He only confirmed it when asked about it - thinking back, he would've remembered "aw yeah, there was something strange goin on out there fo' sure".

Not denying anything, just presenting alternative hypotheses seeing as the Indian authorities haven't confirmed anything yet.

by PearlJ Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:06

HH_pink wrote:
please don't yell wrote:From what i know while there is always abuse there have never been monkey noises made at any other australian players.

I guess it's just a coincidence that they were made this time to the only black player on the team?

I mean cmon if australian fans make monkey noises towards the west indian team we all know it would be seen as racist abuse.

What do you mean they were made to him? Did the alleged culprits actually call out to Symonds and then start making all those faces and noises? For all you know, it might've been going on around that part of the stands for as long as you don't know but the cameras that 'captured' it, surely looking for sensational material, would've panned to that area only when Symonds was around. Note that Symonds did not actually complain about this thing before the 'reports' started appearing in the press. He only confirmed it when asked about it - thinking back, he would've remembered "aw yeah, there was something strange goin on out there fo' sure".

Not denying anything, just presenting alternative hypotheses seeing as the Indian authorities haven't confirmed anything yet.

I think I will take Symonds word for it.

by HH_pink Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:09

PearlJ wrote:
HH_pink wrote:
please don't yell wrote:From what i know while there is always abuse there have never been monkey noises made at any other australian players.

I guess it's just a coincidence that they were made this time to the only black player on the team?

I mean cmon if australian fans make monkey noises towards the west indian team we all know it would be seen as racist abuse.

What do you mean they were made to him? Did the alleged culprits actually call out to Symonds and then start making all those faces and noises? For all you know, it might've been going on around that part of the stands for as long as you don't know but the cameras that 'captured' it, surely looking for sensational material, would've panned to that area only when Symonds was around. Note that Symonds did not actually complain about this thing before the 'reports' started appearing in the press. He only confirmed it when asked about it - thinking back, he would've remembered "aw yeah, there was something strange goin on out there fo' sure".

Not denying anything, just presenting alternative hypotheses seeing as the Indian authorities haven't confirmed anything yet.

I think I will take Symonds word for it.

Certainly yeah, but what I'm saying is it could be a cognitive bias beyond his control. innocent

by HH_pink Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:10

Dello wrote:Strange combination of weaponry he's chosen to arm himself with: a fork and a doughnut.

:laule:

by Gary 111 Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:17

HH_pink wrote:
please don't yell wrote:From what i know while there is always abuse there have never been monkey noises made at any other australian players.

I guess it's just a coincidence that they were made this time to the only black player on the team?

I mean cmon if australian fans make monkey noises towards the west indian team we all know it would be seen as racist abuse.

What do you mean they were made to him? Did the alleged culprits actually call out to Symonds and then start making all those faces and noises? For all you know, it might've been going on around that part of the stands for as long as you don't know but the cameras that 'captured' it, surely looking for sensational material, would've panned to that area only when Symonds was around. Note that Symonds did not actually complain about this thing before the 'reports' started appearing in the press. He only confirmed it when asked about it - thinking back, he would've remembered "aw yeah, there was something strange goin on out there fo' sure".

Not denying anything, just presenting alternative hypotheses seeing as the Indian authorities haven't confirmed anything yet.

It was one huge co-incidence that Symonds was walking out to bat or fielding right on the boundary in front of them when all this occured? Right, glad you've cleared that one up.

by Gary 111 Thu 18 Oct 2007, 00:17

"I am a pretty liberal sort of bloke but racism is a big issue in world sport, not just cricket. It is a sensitive issue and guys have been made an example of in the past, but what do you do in this instance if it's coming from the crowd? Life goes on." - Andrew Symonds

by HH_pink Thu 18 Oct 2007, 01:20

Gary 111 wrote:
HH_pink wrote:
please don't yell wrote:From what i know while there is always abuse there have never been monkey noises made at any other australian players.

I guess it's just a coincidence that they were made this time to the only black player on the team?

I mean cmon if australian fans make monkey noises towards the west indian team we all know it would be seen as racist abuse.

What do you mean they were made to him? Did the alleged culprits actually call out to Symonds and then start making all those faces and noises? For all you know, it might've been going on around that part of the stands for as long as you don't know but the cameras that 'captured' it, surely looking for sensational material, would've panned to that area only when Symonds was around. Note that Symonds did not actually complain about this thing before the 'reports' started appearing in the press. He only confirmed it when asked about it - thinking back, he would've remembered "aw yeah, there was something strange goin on out there fo' sure".

Not denying anything, just presenting alternative hypotheses seeing as the Indian authorities haven't confirmed anything yet.

It was one huge co-incidence that Symonds was walking out to bat or fielding right on the boundary in front of them when all this occured? Right, glad you've cleared that one up.

How did you get that from what I said? It could have been going on and on regardless of Symonds' presence, but then they only asked him didn't they? And he's more prone to remember, isn't he? geek

by Ross Thu 18 Oct 2007, 02:12

So Boof wasn't actually racially abusing the Sri Lankans, he was just shouting 'black ****' over and over regardless of the Lankans' presence? confused

by Ash Thu 18 Oct 2007, 02:19

The One wrote:indian crowds have made monkey noises when the west indian team toured as well. i would prefer if people didnt start giving excuses for it, it should be stamped out.

exactly. anyone who cant see the racist connection is either naive, in denial or has led a very sheltered life.

by Minnesot Thu 18 Oct 2007, 02:29

Ash wrote:
The One wrote:indian crowds have made monkey noises when the west indian team toured as well. i would prefer if people didnt start giving excuses for it, it should be stamped out.

exactly. anyone who cant see the racist connection is either naive, in denial or has led a very sheltered life.

I don't see any racist connection and know Indians better than most on here they are partisan nationals but thats all.

It was all about his confronting Sreethanth from then on he was the bad guy and boundary fielder to boot.

Never heard of Indians jeering West Indians either why would they?

A media beat up that got out of hand.

by G.Wood Thu 18 Oct 2007, 03:35

Minnesota Fats wrote:
Ash wrote:
The One wrote:indian crowds have made monkey noises when the west indian team toured as well. i would prefer if people didnt start giving excuses for it, it should be stamped out.

exactly. anyone who cant see the racist connection is either naive, in denial or has led a very sheltered life.

I don't see any racist connection and know Indians better than most on here they are partisan nationals but thats all.

It was all about his confronting Sreethanth from then on he was the bad guy and boundary fielder to boot.

Never heard of Indians jeering West Indians either why would they?

A media beat up that got out of hand.

err from today's The Australian
In 2002, the West Indies suffered racial abuse from ignorant crowds and one player privately admitted it was the worst he had received in the world. The Indian board and the Indian media want this issue to go away and so does everybody else, but it won't go away until the locals accept it is a serious issue and something that needs to be dealt with.

by embee Thu 18 Oct 2007, 03:40

You cant trust the Ozzie media ...they started the whole thing

by Josh Carney Thu 18 Oct 2007, 03:45

Apparently during that West Indian tour the guys who copped the most were WI players of Indian origin. This does not hang well with the so called African / Monkey theory.

by G.Wood Thu 18 Oct 2007, 03:49

embee wrote:You cant trust the Ozzie media ...they started the whole thing

Aye, it was probably just a bunch of blokes singing that Pixies song

by Josh Carney Thu 18 Oct 2007, 03:52

Now we have a new nick for Symonds "Hanuman". I reckon it is much better than "token" .

by lardbucket Sat 20 Oct 2007, 21:34

These poor fans were just mishear and misquoted. They said Symonds' hair was manky.

More seriously, I'm wondering what sort of encouragement Hanumant Signh used to get when he was walking out to bat, fielding down near the boundary, etc. I expect he got a lot of these calls ...

by doctorspin Sat 20 Oct 2007, 21:47

Josh Carney wrote:Apparently during that West Indian tour the guys who copped the most were WI players of Indian origin. This does not hang well with the so called African / Monkey theory.

That is probably completely different from the abuse that the players of African origin may have received.

Those WI players of Indian origin would be likely to have received abuse of the "traitor" type not dissimilar to the abuse Saj mahmood has received from Pakistanis for playing for England. In literal terms it is about race, but it is very different from the monkey chants which pervade the more ignorant parts of Europe and have to be accepted worldwide as racist and highly offensive. It is disappointing that some try and defend it or explain it away. That is exactly the same attitude and approach that occurred in the UK during the 60's and 70's.

by mynah Sat 20 Oct 2007, 22:36

Those WI players of Indian origin would be likely to have received abuse of the "traitor" type not dissimilar to the abuse Saj mahmood has received from Pakistanis for playing for England.

Might be cultural differences here, but that sounds extremely insulting as well as racist to me. If someone and generations of his ancestors were born in a country, why should he be expected to play for another country?

by tac Sun 21 Oct 2007, 06:07

Minnesota Fats wrote:
Ash wrote:
The One wrote:indian crowds have made monkey noises when the west indian team toured as well. i would prefer if people didnt start giving excuses for it, it should be stamped out.

exactly. anyone who cant see the racist connection is either naive, in denial or has led a very sheltered life.

I don't see any racist connection and know Indians better than most on here they are partisan nationals but thats all.

It was all about his confronting Sreethanth from then on he was the bad guy and boundary fielder to boot.

Never heard of Indians jeering West Indians either why would they?

A media beat up that got out of hand.

Does the sun still revolve around the earth where you live, Gabba D?

by doctorspin Sun 21 Oct 2007, 09:37

mynah wrote:
Those WI players of Indian origin would be likely to have received abuse of the "traitor" type not dissimilar to the abuse Saj mahmood has received from Pakistanis for playing for England.
Might be cultural differences here, but that sounds extremely insulting as well as racist to me. If someone and generations of his ancestors were born in a country, why should he be expected to play for another country?

Well exactly. Got to feel for those 2nd and 3rd generation people. Born in a country, told to "go home" by the "indiginous peoples" and then barracked by those from their ancestral homeland for "rejecting their ancestory, roots" etc.
Not that those of Indian origin in the WI are told to go home in the way that Blacks/Asians are in the UK sometimes; but I hope the point is made.

by Forum Goat Sun 21 Oct 2007, 11:54

Josh Carney wrote:Apparently during that West Indian tour the guys who copped the most were WI players of Indian origin. This does not hang well with the so called African / Monkey theory.

Rubbish. It was Merv Dillon who was heckled and racially abused by a portion of Mumbai crowd.

Kanhai, Kalli and todays Sarwan, Chanders etc always enjoyed Indian tour and never complained about anything in guyanese or indian media.

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