Re: How incorrect assertions can wind up accepted as fact.

by Zat Fri 14 Aug 2009, 23:50

And with 2565 blokes having played Test cricket as of today, there's always going to be plenty of debate.

by ten years after Sat 15 Aug 2009, 03:51

The One wrote:
ten years after wrote:
The One wrote:doesnt seem to rate current cricketers too highly. ponting is the highest rated post-1995 cricketer at 47

Look again. 3 of the top 10 played all or most of their test cricket since 1995.

i meant post-1995 debut. but anyways, anyone makes a list and you can pick holes at it all day long

i guess thats what makes it interesting, especially in a highly number driven game like cricket

Gilchrist debuted in 1999. His position at 10 in this list is the one I would disagree most with I think. I'm not quite sure where he would go in such a list (i may have to have a go at one) but it would be either just above or just below Andy Flower and Sanga as batsman who were/are borderline great as well as being decent keepers.

by skully Sat 15 Aug 2009, 04:06

The One wrote:1 Don Bradman

2 W.G. Grace

3 Garry Sobers

4 Shane Warne

5 Jack Hobbs

6 Viv Richards

7 S.F. Barnes

8 Walter Hammond

9 Sachin Tendulkar

10 Adam Gilchrist

11 Malcolm Marshall (West Indies)

12 Glenn McGrath (Australia)

13 Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri Lanka)

14 Imran Khan (Pakistan)

15 Wilfred Rhodes (England)

16 Keith Miller (Australia)

17 Len Hutton (England)

18 Ian Botham (England)

19 Dennis Lillee (Australia)

20 George Headley (West Indies)

21 Denis Compton (England)

22 Fred Trueman (England)

23 Bill O'Reilly (Australia)

24 Brian Lara (West Indies)

25 Richard Hadlee (New Zealand)

26 Sunil Gavaskar (India)

27 F.R. Spofforth (Australia)

28 Barry Richards (South Africa)

29 Alec Bedser (England)

30 Victor Trumper (Australia)

31 Ray Lindwall (Australia)

32 Everton Weekes (West Indies)

33 Jim Laker (England)

34 Wasim Akram (Pakistan)

35 K.S. Ranjitsinhji (England)

36 Waqar Younis (Pakistan)

37 Graeme Pollock (South Africa)

38 Greg Chappell (Australia)

39 Frank Worrell (West Indies)

40 Frank Woolley (England)

41 Richie Benaud (Australia)

42 Peter May (England)

43 Herbert Sutcliffe (England)

44 Graham Gooch (England)

45 Clyde Walcott (West Indies)

46 Ken Barrington (England)

47 Ricky Ponting (Australia)

48 Kapil Dev (India)

49 Harold Larwood (England)

50 George Lohmann (England)

51 Curtly Ambrose (West Indies)

52 Jacques Kallis (South Africa)

53 Geoffrey Boycott (England)

54 Clarrie Grimmett (Australia)

55 Allan Border (Australia)

56 Learie Constantine (West Indies)

57 Javed Miandad (Pakistan)

58 Kumar Sangakkara (Sri Lanka)

59 Hedley Verity (England)

60 Kevin Pietersen (England)

61 Arthur Shrewsbury (England)

62 Bishan Bedi (India)

63 Steve Waugh (Australia)

64 Les Ames (England)

65 Stan McCabe (Australia)

66 John Snow (England)

67 Sanath Jayasuriya (Sri Lanka)

68 Warwick Armstrong (Australia)

69 Alan Knott (England)

70 David Gower (England)

71 Jack Gregory (Australia)

72 Clive Lloyd (West Indies)

73 Martin Donnelly (New Zealand)

74 Rahul Dravid (India)

75 Ted Dexter (England)

76 Andy Flower (Zimbabwe)

77 Maurice Tate (England)

78 Colin Cowdrey (England)

79 Mahela Jayawardena (Sri Lanka)

80 C.B. Fry (England)

81 Bill Ponsford (Australia)

82 Andrew Flintoff (England)

83 Allan Donald (South Africa)

84 Gilbert Jessop (England)

85 Michael Holding (West Indies)

86 Zaheer Abbas (Pakistan)

87 Neil Harvey (Australia)

88 Abdul Qadir (Pakistan)

89 Brian Statham (England)

90 Lance Gibbs (West Indies)

91 Ian Healy (Australia)

92 Courtney Walsh (West Indies)

93 Graeme Smith (South Africa)

94 Bhagwat Chandrasekhar (India)

95 C.T.B. Turner (Australia)

96 Vijay Merchant (India)

97 Shaun Pollock (South Africa)

98 Gordon Greenidge (West Indies)

99 Vinoo Mankad (India)

100 Charlie Macartney (Australia)

No Alan Davidson in the top 100. Farkin joke. Rolling Eyes

Davo >>> Fred.

by ten years after Sat 15 Aug 2009, 04:29

surprised peterg stated that it "is not a bad list" with Davidson missing.

by Hass Sat 15 Aug 2009, 07:00

ten years after wrote:

Gilchrist debuted in 1999. His position at 10 in this list is the one I would disagree most with I think. I'm not quite sure where he would go in such a list (i may have to have a go at one) but it would be either just above or just below Andy Flower and Sanga as batsman who were/are borderline great as well as being decent keepers.

TYA. This probably explains why we don't see eye to eye on picking Gilchrist in All-Time XIs (aside from the "you should always pick your best gloveman" debate).

I think Gilchrist is damn close to being one of the top 10 cricketers of all time. I'd probably bump him back a couple of places myself, but I think CMJ has almost got it right with Gilly.

Gilchrist is in another league compared to Flower and Sangakarra (great batsman that they are/were). I know I say this every time Gilchrist is discussed, but he could change the course of a match in a single session - and did so on numerous occasions when it counted.

He was also far superior to Flower as a 'keeper and better than Sanga with the gloves (though not by as much).

by taipan Sat 15 Aug 2009, 07:08

I still don't know why we keep discussing Sanga as a keeper.

by peterg Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:04

I was going to say that Davidson should not be excluded. He was on a par with Wasim Akram.

by peterg Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:07

Also, although I haven't counted, it seems that CMJ has included rather more English than Australians. I doubt that this would be justified, although such biases are probably inevitable.

by peterg Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:13

I make it 32 from England, not counting Ranji, and 25 Austrakians counting Grimmett.
Quite a disparity, and I'd suggest an unjustifiable one.

by tac Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:31

Tendy at 9 and Lara at 24 is a joke . . .

by Bradman Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:44

Way to stir up the subis taccy. Though taking into account Lara's record on unfriendly pitches and SRT having the benefit of home umpires you might be right.

by taipan Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:47

Yeah, they will now take it as conclusive proof that T>L

by Bradman Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:53

Well being stupid isn't a cause for the death penalty unfortunately.

by taipan Sat 15 Aug 2009, 08:54

Bradman wrote:Well being stupid isn't a cause for the death penalty unfortunately.

You could be on to something there

by Bradman Sat 15 Aug 2009, 09:00

Except being a life long propenent of no death penalty anywhere it would be a bit strange.

Though I can see exceptions.

by The One Sat 15 Aug 2009, 09:01

ten years after wrote:
The One wrote:
ten years after wrote:
The One wrote:doesnt seem to rate current cricketers too highly. ponting is the highest rated post-1995 cricketer at 47

Look again. 3 of the top 10 played all or most of their test cricket since 1995.

i meant post-1995 debut. but anyways, anyone makes a list and you can pick holes at it all day long

i guess thats what makes it interesting, especially in a highly number driven game like cricket

Gilchrist debuted in 1999. His position at 10 in this list is the one I would disagree most with I think. I'm not quite sure where he would go in such a list (i may have to have a go at one) but it would be either just above or just below Andy Flower and Sanga as batsman who were/are borderline great as well as being decent keepers.

ah my bad. missed out gilly

he does seem to add up the all-round skills of a player and hence the high positions of many of the all-rounders, even though one or both of their skills seperately may not be close to ATG status, as opposed to outstanding specialists

by Bradman Sat 15 Aug 2009, 09:09

I woudn't have him on the list that high. He might make it as batsman, but not a keeper. And he was batting when the scoreboard was like five for a million. Takes the pressure off you.

by The One Sat 15 Aug 2009, 09:14

peterg wrote:I make it 32 from England, not counting Ranji, and 25 Austrakians counting Grimmett.
Quite a disparity, and I'd suggest an unjustifiable one.

to complete that

8 indians (9 if you include ranji)
2 kiwis
4 lankans
6 pakistanis
6 saffies
15 windians
1 zimmer

by taipan Sat 15 Aug 2009, 09:17

The One wrote:
peterg wrote:I make it 32 from England, not counting Ranji, and 25 Austrakians counting Grimmett.
Quite a disparity, and I'd suggest an unjustifiable one.

to complete that

8 indians (9 if you include ranji)
2 kiwis
4 lankans
6 pakistanis
6 saffies (7 if you include KP)
15 windians
1 zimmer

Fixed

by skully Sat 15 Aug 2009, 10:13

CMJ is havin' a wank.

by skully Sat 15 Aug 2009, 10:15

tac wrote:Tendy at 9 and Lara at 24 is a joke . . .

Aye, it's clear that...

L >>> T

by taipan Sat 15 Aug 2009, 10:16

skully wrote:CMJ is havin' a wank.

You sure?

by Bradman Sat 15 Aug 2009, 10:18

To be fair the list is somewhat subjective, and you have to consider it's author.

by skully Sat 15 Aug 2009, 10:20

taipan wrote:
skully wrote:CMJ is havin' a wank.

You sure?

It sounded more polite than "getting rogered up the date by his boyfriend".

by ten years after Sat 15 Aug 2009, 14:35

peterg wrote:I make it 32 from England, not counting Ranji, and 25 Austrakians counting Grimmett.
Quite a disparity, and I'd suggest an unjustifiable one.

Despite the despair of the past three decades, there have been many more FC and test cricketers from England than anywhere else so it is not unreasonable that England should have the highest representation in a top 100.

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