So long Freddy....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/9005165.stm

Probably didn't quite fulful his potential statistics wise, but will always be remembered for the 2005 series and to a slightly lesser extent 2009. The runout from 2009 to dismiss Ponting is still magical .

Can't always judge a player by stats, and he was a different player post 2002 from the one picked in 1998 - between 2003-2006 he was one of the best bowlers around and he averaged about 40 with the bat before the injuries started taking their toll.

Looking back you wonder why he wasn't used 2005 onwards as strike bowler rather than stock bowler (thinking of 2006 v SL at Lords!) May have preserved his career a bit.

The only other cricketer in my time who could empty bars when they walked out to bat was Beefy.

Au Revoir Sir Fred

It's a pity, wouldn't have minded see him in the ODIs this summer.

Probably bowled better than his figures suggested.

Very good cricketer who broke the mould of the robotic. We need more mavericks.

The hand of fate can be cruel sometimes.

Aye, farewell Freddie.
You were a good 'un when it mattered ....

... speaking of which ....

(from the article) ...

Despite announcing before the second Test at Lord's that he would be quitting the five-day game at the end of that series, he produced a devastating spell on the final morning of that Test, taking 5-92 in a 115-run victory.

I'm glad to say ..... I WOZ THERE !!

Sad day. Like losing a distant but still important friend.

I really hoped he could make it back, even if just as a T20 batsman but it's a shame even that wasn't possible. Hopefully he can find a future somewhere in the game and avoid going into a downward spiral of drink etc.

As others have said, overall stats don't tell the full story, too much of his cricket was played when not fully fit and he took time to make his mark. At his peak he was a matchwinner who could turn a game in one session with bat or ball, and players like that don't come along too often. At least Swann and Broad's efforts with the bat down the order appear to be sparing us the succession of craptacular "all-rounders" who followed Botham in the desperate attempt to find a like-for-like replacement...

Also, they appear to be being better treated, with some inkling of technical mangement and psychological insight.

Some of the Failed New Bothams had fair talent, but most ended up with something like muppet status. See Robin Smith's remarks on Illy and Fletch as man managers. And I would add Bumble to them. Not much idea really.

Yeah, Freddie was almost one of them. I remember him making a pair in a Test against India in 2002 and thinking that had to be it, his time was up, another failed all-rounder experiment. From then on though he didn't look back, first with the bat and then under Vaughan's captaincy he went from defensive stock bowler into a genuine wicket-taking impact bowler.

Regarding Bumble as a coach - he's a legend in the commentary box but I can't imagine him actually being taken seriously in charge of an international team. Or a village second XI, for that matter...

Shame he can't play any longer. Retiring at 32 is so 80s.

I suspect in a few years he will be remembered as close to a legend by the fans who saw him play, and a 'what -was -all- the- fuss- about' by those who didn't.

Thanks for the memories Freddie - it was brilliant while it lasted.

Well played, big fella. There's no doubt you played probably THE pivotal role in Ashes 05.

fredalo was a classic matchwinner who rose to the occassion...this goes beyond his otherwise ordinairy stats

Yeah the wonderful bastard peaked at the right times didn't he?

2-1, 0-5, 2-1

Not always...

His impact in 05 was far beyond his impact in 09, though he did have that match-winning spell of 5-92 at Lords in 09.

Ask the Aussie top and middle order which fast bowler hit the bat the hardest, and they'll say Flintoff.

Probably.

Henry wrote:Ask the Aussie top and middle order which fast bowler hit the bat the hardest, and they'll say Flintoff.

I doubt it. The way he was swinging it and they were playing him I doubt any of them felt it full in the middle.

PeterCS wrote:Also, they appear to be being better treated, with some inkling of technical mangement and psychological insight.

Some of the Failed New Bothams had fair talent, but most ended up with something like muppet status. See Robin Smith's remarks on Illy and Fletch as man managers. And I would add Bumble to them. Not much idea really.

beamer wrote:
Regarding Bumble as a coach - he's a legend in the commentary box but I can't imagine him actually being taken seriously in charge of an international team. Or a village second XI, for that matter...

I think you're well wide of the mark, lads.

As England coach, Bumble was both well liked and highly respected by his players.

The honest truth is that, at the time, we didn't have many high-class players, and were simply not a very good team.

JKLever wrote:2-1, 0-5, 2-1

Not always...

not very fair jkl...he bravely played the middle series through the pain barrier and earnt more respect for his efforts from us...the pity was aside from collingwood his team was tosh

Andrew Miller isn't quick to heap praise on Flintoff-

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/477455.html

You can't help but agree with him to an extent. Fred was a very good cricketer and a great bloke, but the marketing men got hold of him after 2005 and he was never quite the same again.

In fact, in general the media has been pretty savage on Flintoff in regards to the timing of his retirement announcement- On the last day of one of the tightest CCs ever, when county cricket had a chance to have its day in the sun.

Aye Trev, but on the other hand, it's a sh!tty British disease - praising sportsmen almost to the point of c*ck-sucking when they're winning, then shoving the knife in at the first opportunity.

Only a year ago, Fabio Capello was the best thing ever happenned to English footy the way we qualified for the WC - when we went out, the journos & pundits would castrate themselveswith rusty scissors than say anything good about him. The general hypocrisy makes me spit.

As for Swann - whilst it's true enough that England have moved on since Fred - they didn't have a choice - the tone of his remarks have lowered my estimation of him as a bloke ... he comes across to me as a churlish arsehole.

I've heard that many players in the England dressing room were uncomfortable that Flintoff appeared to have gotten too big for his boots post 2005. IE- He wasn't as popular amongst the players as he was amongst the public.

As for Swanny's comments, it's been a year since England won the ashes, and in that time players have fallen over themselves to praise Flintoff- a guy who bowled one match winning bowling spell in his last 2 years for England (Lord's). They gushed about him prior to the Lord's test when he'd announced he was retiring from tests after the ashes, they gushed about him after the Lord's test when he'd bowled that match winning spell, and they gushed about him after the ashes were won at the Oval and he officially retired from tests.

Now he's retired AGAIN, timing his announcement to coincide with county cricket's big day, and i'm not surprised the players are sick of gushing about him. Barring the ODI series immediately after the ashes, and the Champions trophy England haven't lost a series in any form of cricket since Flintoff retired....twice. The fans may miss Flintoff but the England cricket team doesn't.

Swann is arguably a better cricketer for England than Flintoff was, anyway.

Oh I'm not suggesting that Swann should have "gushed" about him - but youdon't need the brains of a quantum physicist to know what he really felt. I'd have had more respect had he found the gonads to actually say it straight.

Swann may or may not be a better cricketer than Flintoff, time will tell. Wasn't it he who was picked (but didn't play) for England years ago, but was such a c*ck in the dressing room that he was discarded in short order?