Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (II)

[JGK]

Yet it was the war which allowed Al Qaeda to get a foothold into Iraq.

[horace]

personally I supported the invasion of Afganistan altho I doubt the UN will be out of there before another few decades.

but I strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq...the evidence (WMD) was cooked, more people have suffered there than under saddam and terrorism has been given a kick along

[Paul Keating]

The left have been in plenty of wars and started plenty of wars. So we have shared in our global responsibility.

The second gulf war was a mistake. Even hard core tea party/republicans admit it was a mistake. I cannot fathom how you don't think Howard farked that up.

[Paul Keating]

And I am talking about Iraq incase you think I was referring to Afghanistan (which I agreed with Howard on)

[Big Dog]

personally I supported the invasion of Afganistan altho I doubt the UN will be out of there before another few decades.

but I strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq...the evidence (WMD) was cooked, more people have suffered there than under saddam and terrorism has been given a kick along

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Bradman]

The ALP brought in the WAP?

Fark me dead. Who'da thunk it

In effect the ALP feared cheap labour. It was the same reason they championed the start of the Lands Rights movement via the Wave Hill walk-off. They wanted Aboriginal stockman paid the same meaning more jobs for white stockmen. Thus a generation of Aboriginals turned off their homelands.

[horace]

"Hindsight is a wonderful thing"

It is what the International War Crimes Tribunal relies on

but I opposed it from the outset...it did not make sense

[Paul Keating]

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2011/s3271207.htm

Loved this on Insiders yesterday.

Just a couple of "selective" quotes,

BARRIE CASSIDY TO JOHN HOWARD: You told the National Press Club in July 2007 that in the years to come it will provide a model for other nations to follow.

Peter Shergold, who advised you at the time, talked about getting out in front.

BARRIE CASSIDY TO JOHN HOWARD: Because you did say then at the Press Club that being among the first to move will bring new opportunities and we intend to grasp them.

[horace]

incidentally ljh (aside from a few QBillies including some labour ones) deliberately played the race card for craven political interest and dragged us back into the Menzies/Calwell era

[JGK]

It's funny that there is more and more credible evidence for global warming than there ever was for WMDs but the Tories will go to their graves saying that the Iraq invasion was the responsible thing to do but putting a price on carbon is like the onset of armageddon.

[Paul Keating]

Hindsight?

Unbelievable.

It is like in hindsight, after seeing what happened in the 2010 election, I will change my mind and do something else.

[Bradman]

personally I supported the invasion of Afganistan altho I doubt the UN will be out of there before another few decades.

but I strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq...the evidence (WMD) was cooked, more people have suffered there than under saddam and terrorism has been given a kick along

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

i disagreed with Iraq on moral and legal grounds. Afghanistan was justifiable under both those criteria but from a strategic and tactical point of view was probably lunacy. If history's greates conquerer, one of history's most all encompassing empires, the most ruthless military machine of the twentieth century and the most technologically advanced army in the history of the world all got or are getting their arses handed to them on a platter....well. You do the maths.

[Paul Keating]

I just can't believe that Big Dog cannot criticise LJH for that one mistake. Fark I think I have even read somewhere that Skully in hindsight said it was a failed policy of the Howard years.

[Paul Keating]

And it is not really hindsight when the majority of lefties on this forum are on the record in 2003 (on the old C4) of being against the Iraq Invasion.

The majority of lefties on the very first C4 forum in Sep/Oct 2001 were for the attack on Afghanistan. So it's not hindsight, we called it at the time.

[Bradman]

Phhuuurrttt! A bunch of Vietnam era hawks have said they farked up. And Howard still won't admit his complicity was wrong. You'd be stretching it to think he'd admit wrong after only eight years.

[horace]

true qmy...that is why they will have to be there for the long haul - ie decades

there have been some invasions I supported - Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia was totally justifiable altho they were made an international pariah...my only concern was they should have gone in earlier

and of course we had no business being involved in the Vietnam War

[Paul Keating]

Didn't Rumsfeld (or however you spell his name) come out and say he made a mistake?

Didn't Powell shed a tear and admit he farked up.

Honestly, it was a horrendous mistake, some people need to admit it.

[Paul Keating]

We also have a global responsibility to take in boat people too.

We also have a global responsibility to put an insurance premium on the future of this planet (whether the science is real or not)

[horace]

"the man of steel wool"

[JGK]

But they can't Ponts because if they do, they will have to agree that sometimes governments do not do things perfectly and that doesn't suit the Tories at the moment who love using hindsight (batts, BER, etc) to make the case that the current government is the devil.

[Bradman]

I think Cheney's about the only one left claiming Vietnam was an enlightened policy. Condi maybe. Tom Clancy perhaps. So Howard's in good company.

[Paul Keating]

And if it was Beazley who went to war with Iraq. I would have been just as critical of the ALP as I am of the Coalition.

Although embee claims that the bomber would have gone in as well. Possibly. Although if Latham was in power, I have no doubts he would not have gone to war.

[embee]

Latham would have gone to war in Iraq ...on Saddam's team

Beazley would have gone in ...he would have followed Blair ...

[horace]

beazley would have gone...big boofhead bull mastiff just like ljh corgi lapdog - both jump at uncle sams instructions

[JGK]

Beazley might have been rolled by his own party before the troops left.

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