Re: Aus Federal Politics thread (II)

by bodyline Tue 19 Jul 2011, 00:41

I see Rick perry is moving closer to making a run for President of the US.

Makes Dubya look like a leftie!

by Bradman Tue 19 Jul 2011, 00:48

The more fruit loops the merrier.

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 03:20

Once again, I see the debate between right and left on this forum has stopped.

No legs to stand on, really.

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 03:34

debate ...it's always been just a slanging match ...

...and I'm sure you lefties can find some legs somewhere

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 03:48

how is it a slanging match.

BD bags out the Whitlam government. I put up details of what Whitlam achieved. Then I asked for details of what LJH achived during his terms.

He just ignores it, like he ignores most of the questions asked of him on this thread.

Pointless debating with someone who can throw mud but cannot handle it coming back.

by Big Dog Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:03

Paul Keating wrote:how is it a slanging match.

BD bags out the Whitlam government. I put up details of what Whitlam achieved. Then I asked for details of what LJH achived during his terms.

He just ignores it, like he ignores most of the questions asked of him on this thread.

Pointless debating with someone who can throw mud but cannot handle it coming back.

Sorry..i did'nt realize it had become a p!ssing contest.

Well...stopping the freeloaders on the boats & East Timor are just a couple off the top of my head. I admit there were a couple of things he did'nt do...like wasting billions of dollars of taxpayers money in less than two terms.

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:07

Paul Keating wrote:how is it a slanging match.

BD bags out the Whitlam government. I put up details of what Whitlam achieved. Then I asked for details of what LJH achived during his terms.

He just ignores it, like he ignores most of the questions asked of him on this thread.

Pointless debating with someone who can throw mud but cannot handle it coming back.

You've answered your own question

BD didnt bag out the Whitlam govt ...he said they were remembered badly (except by rabid pinkos)...which is what the majority of public perception is ...despite his documentable achievements

Conversely Howard will be remembered well (except by rabid pinkos) ...despite his documentable shortcomings

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:10

There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.

– Niccolo Machiavelli

by JGK Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:47

embee wrote:There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.

– Niccolo Machiavelli

Which is why Conservative politicians rarely make great leaders and reforming leaders are only seen as "great" well after the event.

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:54

which is why Gillard should get on and reform something rather than worry about Abbott ...her selling point of the Carbon (not a) Tax has mainly been that its better than Abbott's plan ....ffs ...get on with selling it on its own merits

by horace Tue 19 Jul 2011, 04:59

indeed

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 05:17

Big Dog wrote:
Paul Keating wrote:how is it a slanging match.

BD bags out the Whitlam government. I put up details of what Whitlam achieved. Then I asked for details of what LJH achived during his terms.

He just ignores it, like he ignores most of the questions asked of him on this thread.

Pointless debating with someone who can throw mud but cannot handle it coming back.

Sorry..i did'nt realize it had become a p!ssing contest.

Well...stopping the freeloaders on the boats & East Timor are just a couple off the top of my head. I admit there were a couple of things he did'nt do...like wasting billions of dollars of taxpayers money in less than two terms.

Put up the figures then.

If you are going to go around and make these claims, then back it up.

Put up or shut up.

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 05:20

Stopping the boats is actually a reform and achievement of the Howard era??

Tell me how that has improved the lives of the average person. Real reform makes a real difference. FFS you wouldn't even know there was a boat "illegally" arriving if it wasn't for the hysteria of the Murdoch press. You see real reform in being able to go to the doctors without paying very much.

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 05:50

How about APRA , Ponts ?

by embee Tue 19 Jul 2011, 05:51

Gun Control ?

GST?

by bodyline Tue 19 Jul 2011, 05:56

embee wrote:Gun Control ?

GST?

He should be remembered for one simple act - getting rid of that farkwit Keating!

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 06:03

embee wrote:How about APRA , Ponts ?

yep it is a very good reform.

by JGK Tue 19 Jul 2011, 06:13

Howard's greatest achievement was the GST. Without a doubt.

Gun control was a no brainer after Port Arthur but Howard certainly used that opportunity brilliantly.

APRA (or more directly the Wallis Inquiry) was also a highly positive thing.

Alas all the good things stopped after 2000 and for the rest of his term he was obsessed simply with keeping power.

Actually I lie, the extension of daylight saving in NSW (and other states) was also a Howard initiative late in his PMship.

by horace Tue 19 Jul 2011, 07:23

keeping costello out was an achievement of merit as was the loss of his own seat

by horace Tue 19 Jul 2011, 07:30

cripes the Mad Monk continues to look like a highly credible comedian...yesterday he about faced on his party's emission reduction target and now he has done another 180 degree turn

by Big Dog Tue 19 Jul 2011, 09:01

horace wrote:cripes the Mad Monk continues to look like a highly credible comedian...yesterday he about faced on his party's emission reduction target and now he has done another 180 degree turn

If so what does that say about Juliar. He is crapping on her as preferred PM.

by Big Dog Tue 19 Jul 2011, 09:25

Paul Keating wrote:Stopping the boats is actually a reform and achievement of the Howard era??

Tell me how that has improved the lives of the average person. Real reform makes a real difference. FFS you wouldn't even know there was a boat "illegally" arriving if it wasn't for the hysteria of the Murdoch press. You see real reform in being able to go to the doctors without paying very much.

As these rag assed mongrals are costing us over a Billion per year i'd say it was a significant reform....however , as you seem to have forgotten what the original 'debate' was about. i'll remind you. We were talking about Gillard taking the mantle as the countries worst government.
Yes, Whitlam introduced some good reforms, i have no problem agreeing there, it can also be said, however, that he also introduced some that were nothing but gratuitous pandering to the Labor left that put him in power.
Whitlams biggest mistake was appointing the geriatric hippie, Jim Cairns to the Treasury. As usual with Labor governments, Whitlam spent more that the country earned but Cairns was more concerned with banging his personal secretary than looking after the books. He & O'Connor lied to Parliament about their shonky deals with a Pakistani loan broker (these Packi's stuff everything, don't they) & so Whitlam had to go.
I have always sympathised wirh Kerr as he was caught between a rock & a hard place. In the end he did what was best for the country & has been pilloried by the left ever since.
Gillard on the other hand has introduced no significant reforms, no gainful initiatives, has lied to the country & has introduced a tax that will destroy our export market.
In my books Juliar wins hands down.

by JGK Tue 19 Jul 2011, 09:53

What did Gillard lie about?

by Paul Keating Tue 19 Jul 2011, 10:22

She has been in power for ten months. hardly enough time to do anything.

by Bradman Tue 19 Jul 2011, 11:35

Big Dog wrote:
Paul Keating wrote:how is it a slanging match.

BD bags out the Whitlam government. I put up details of what Whitlam achieved. Then I asked for details of what LJH achived during his terms.

He just ignores it, like he ignores most of the questions asked of him on this thread.

Pointless debating with someone who can throw mud but cannot handle it coming back.

Sorry..i did'nt realize it had become a p!ssing contest.

Well...stopping the freeloaders on the boats & East Timor are just a couple off the top of my head. I admit there were a couple of things he did'nt do...like wasting billions of dollars of taxpayers money in less than two terms.

Depends on your definition of waste I spose. Bank the mining boom windfall because "us Libs run surplus' because building national infrastructure is so plebian and if we did put money into roads, health, housing & education there'd be nothing left for tax cuts come election time."

Last time I checked the economy was ingreat shape despite Hostello's efforts to fark us.

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