Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by JGK on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 05:39

Mick Sawyer wrote:
Anthony_Gonzales wrote:No one here has any pretensions to be anything special in any sport. I think that is understood. The point is about the comparison of sports.

My point was that if you haven't lived in a fast bowers boots you frankly can't scoff at their need for recovery time.

In any case, it's an unfair comparison. In tennis, your opponent is going through the same hell that you are. In cricket, the batsman's involvement in the contest is far less physical.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by taipan on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 05:41

Anthony_Gonzales wrote:In non grand slam events, you have to play matches on consecutive days - not once of course but for top players, several in a row. Many times you see a grueling semi final and then someone like Djokovic back at the court within 18 hours or so - fit as a fiddle, blasting away in the final, with his usual amazing retrieving powers.

In grand slams, there is a day's break, but the matches are best of five. And the number of matches to be played is more. And in the US Open, you don't get even a day's break between the semis and the finals.

Not uncommon at all for a top player to be at the next tournament within a couple of days or so. A

I cringe when I hear test matches with three days breaks referred to as "back to back" by the players and the media. Bear in mind, pretty much every player gets around a couple of days rest within a test match, sitting in the dressing room. Even then you have guys who have to be "rested" because the next match is 'only' three days apart. Wow.

So tell me how this is different from 40 years ago. Except that regular tournaments are best of 3 and have tiebreaks, and then let's discuss the entourages the players have following them around.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Anthony_Gonzales on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 17:57

I am sure you know much more physical tennis has become, how much more fast paced, how much less reaction time you have. How much more strain it puts on the body. The classic Borg - McEnroe matches look like in slow motion compared to tennis these days. Tennis isn't necessarily a better sport because of it, as there is a feeling something beautiful has been lost along the way. But that is another topic.

This isn't about the evolution of tennis. I just thought that it was very odd that someone who obviously likes cricket so much that they would be on a cricket forum would be critical of tennis players of being soft. If you think tennis players are soft, then you should be absolutely disgusted by cricket's pampered universe.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by beamer on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 17:58

taipan wrote:Tennis players today are soft. If you look back to the beginning of the open era, all matches were played over 5 sets with no tiebreaks. And thernow was no sitting when changing ends.
It's a lot harder to break serve now though, with modern equipment (in the men's game anyway). They didn't get the 5 and 6 hour matches we do today even with tie-breaks, in the era before they existed.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by taipan on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 18:11

beamer wrote:
taipan wrote:Tennis players today are soft. If you look back to the beginning of the open era, all matches were played over 5 sets with no tiebreaks. And thernow was no sitting when changing ends.
It's a lot harder to break serve now though, with modern equipment (in the men's game anyway). They didn't get the 5 and 6 hour matches we do today even with tie-breaks, in the era before they existed.

Really?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/1969/jun/26/wimbledon2003.tennis
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by beamer on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 18:18

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_tennis_match_records

Of 26 recorded matches in excess of 5 hours, only two were in the pre-tiebreak era.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Anthony_Gonzales on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 18:20

[quote="JGK"][quote="Mick Sawyer"]
Anthony_Gonzales wrote:

In any case, it's an unfair comparison. In tennis, your opponent is going through the same hell that you are. In cricket, the batsman's involvement in the contest is far less physical.

And the bowler's involvement is non - existent since barely any of them these days are able to put two or three matches together before they are out injured. Or rested Smile

Just go through the last few months and see how many bowlers have even played three test matches in a row - despite those 8-9 days of break that they get between matches. That does not even count who haven't played at all because they are already injured. It has become downright abysmal. A farce.

In real terms, two guys who meet in a tennis final seldom have had the same amount of rest. Sometimes the semis are played on different days - and if not, then obviously still at different times. If you are back at the court within 18 hours or so, then even a few hours make a big difference. Also the fact that one player usually has had a much more demanding previous match than the other.

As for the actual match after little rest time, even if both players are going through the same exertions, it still does not make it easier on either one physically. You still have to run yourself ragged regardless. The other's suffering does not make yours any easier.

The other really beautiful aspect of tennis is that one player can literally tire the other one out of the game, make him run side to side. Play long points - a tactic that is often used. Physicality is such an inherent part of the sport and yet the schedules and all are so demanding.

In cricket, a batsman can hit a bowler for six but he can't tell him to go run around the ground. The bowler will still take his own time in bowling the fixed six balls in an over. That is not dependent upon the opponent.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by PeterCS on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 18:23

But a double or triple ton can wear down a whole team, physically and mentally.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by taipan on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 18:32

beamer wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_tennis_match_records

Of 26 recorded matches in excess of 5 hours, only two were in the pre-tiebreak era.

And over six hours?

Of course the sit down every 2 games adds quite a bit of time.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Anthony_Gonzales on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 20:00

Paul Keating wrote:Of course cricketers aren't as fit as tennis players


Yes, of course. Quite an understatement though.

I can bet good money that Steffi Graf, a woman, even at this age long out of the professional circuit, is fitter than almost all members of the Indian cricket team.





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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by lardbucket on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 20:02

She certainly looks fit there.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Brass Monkey on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 20:19

Whoazers... someone throw the life ring.

I think the actual fitness of the cricketer is underrated. For instance, England have a minimum requirement of 12.5 on the bleep test. Which all but Samit Patel exceed quite a bit. If you stand, say 14, in amongst a variety sportsmen it isn't too far down, if any. Not a great deal, at the very worst.

If you're talking India then you're talking about a team that has nigh on always relied solely on exceptional talent.

If you're talking Aussies, Saffies, Anglos(recently) and Kiwis(probably) then they'd do pretty well. Of the confirmed reports I could find (only four), you have Patel and Younis Khan down at 12.1-12.5 and have Adam Hollioake and Ben Hilfenhaus up at 15s.

This is probably immaterial, in any case. Cricket needs a different type of hardiness. It needs someone willing to potentially be hit at fast speed with a rock-hard ball an unlimited amount of times. You're talking about spinners and keepers that will absolutely ruin their fingers. Fast bowlers who will contort their body into some unbelievably unnatural shapes, putting up to 300lbs of pressure on their front leg six times in a couple of minutes.

Chalk and cheese.

And nothing to do with the original topic.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Anthony_Gonzales on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 20:31

Yes, indeed, every sport does require its own level of stress endurance. The tremendous amount of strain that gets put on the knees and ankles with endless movement up and down in sports like tennis and basketball which are played on hard surfaces is quite something.

But something is clearly very wrong with either cricket or cricketers when most of them can't seem to string together even three matches - liberally spaced at that. It is a different matter if a sportsman is out injured for a long time. That can and does happen in most sports. In cricket, there are constant injuries now. Some guy comes back from injury and then within one or two match, it out injured again. I really can't think of too many sports in which the situation is so farcical.

It has become so bad now that they are dropping off within a match. If cricket is unable to get guys with requisite fitness for the type of work required, it should lessen the work requirement, shorten the pitch, tinker with LBW rules or something, do something.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by taipan on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 20:37

Anthony_Gonzales wrote:Yes, indeed, every sport does require its own level of stress endurance. The tremendous amount of strain that gets put on the knees and ankles with endless movement up and down in sports like tennis and basketball which are played on hard surfaces is quite something.

But something is clearly very wrong with either cricket or cricketers when most of them can't seem to string together even three matches - liberally spaced at that. It is a different matter if a sportsman is out injured for a long time. That can and does happen in most sports. In cricket, there are constant injuries now. Some guy comes back from injury and then within one or two match, it out injured again. I really can't think of too many sports in which the situation is so farcical.

It has become so bad now that they are dropping off within a match. If cricket is unable to get guys with requisite fitness for the type of work required, it should lessen the work requirement, shorten the pitch, tinker with LBW rules or something, do something.

Most of them. Really
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Brass Monkey on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 23:10

Anthony_Gonzales wrote:Yes, indeed, every sport does require its own level of stress endurance. The tremendous amount of strain that gets put on the knees and ankles with endless movement up and down in sports like tennis and basketball which are played on hard surfaces is quite something.

But something is clearly very wrong with either cricket or cricketers when most of them can't seem to string together even three matches - liberally spaced at that. It is a different matter if a sportsman is out injured for a long time. That can and does happen in most sports. In cricket, there are constant injuries now. Some guy comes back from injury and then within one or two match, it out injured again. I really can't think of too many sports in which the situation is so farcical.

It has become so bad now that they are dropping off within a match. If cricket is unable to get guys with requisite fitness for the type of work required, it should lessen the work requirement, shorten the pitch, tinker with LBW rules or something, do something.

Though tongue-in-cheek, that's pretty hyperbolic. Professional sportsmen get injured all the while. It's the way of life, I'm afraid. Don't get me wrong, I think the administration are possibly taking it easy on their respective players. But it must be a slog, plain and simple. To be doing what they do, it'd be difficult to maintain the intensity all the time. But, as I've stated in my previous post - many of them make a good fist of it. There're many examples of great fitness and many more of great fortitude in cricket.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by baggygreen on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 04:37

Or cricketers are are breaking down so much and tennis players are doing unbelievable things because one sport is cleaner than the other
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Fred Nerk on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 04:45

Show some real balls and name names.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Fred Nerk on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 04:55

Didn't think so.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by baggygreen on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:10

me?
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Fred Nerk on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:13

Notice anybody else throwing cheap shots around?

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by horace on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:20

baggygreen comes from the State that produced the West Coast drug beagles...he's probably an authority Fred
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Fred Nerk on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:29

There's something very familiar about the 'literary' 'style'....the 'I concur' specially rang a bell for some reason.

About the only unaccounted-for Woz I can think of is waboy, but the spelling's miles too good and 'concur' has at least one syllable too many.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by horace on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:31

not quite as madhatterish about all things worrier as waboy...did gabbadan move out west?
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by Fred Nerk on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:35

If it is the Gabster then he and Watto have fallen out big time.

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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

Post by baggygreen on Tue 08 Jan 2013, 05:35

(ignoring the zilf-lover) Sorry, just didn't realise Fred Nerk = Anthony Gonzalez, it threw me. Also don't generally check back threads once I've read them so consider you 10-min window response to be a cheap shot as well.

Don't really need to name names, was making a generalised statement about one sport over the other.

It does make sense if everything Tony said is true, certainly one way for them to achieve the fitness and stamina levels they have.

If you want names you don't really have to look past Nadal and Fuentes. Errani + Safina's doctor was recently implicated in the Lance mess. Plenty there if you want to scratch through the surface.
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Re: Tennis Players. Greedy AND soft. Just ask Andy.

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