England v South Africa, 1st Test, The Oval, 19-23 July, 2012

beamer wrote:

taipan wrote:Not to diss Strauss but on the commentary today they stated that England have had seven captains since Smith took over SA.

Three of those were stand-ins though, Nasser departed early into Smith's reign as we all know, and KP didn't last long at all. So Vaughan and Strauss as England captains effectively cover nearly all of Smith's reign with SA.

Doesn't change my point though. I'm also fairly sure Cook will take over before Smith chucks the job.

Yeah, Smith is one of the very few "timeless" captains who completely symbolise an era for their country, where it gets to the stage that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the job. Border and Fleming are the only others I can think of who managed a decade or close to it. Clive Lloyd perhaps but he was slightly before my time.

beamer wrote:Yeah, Smith is one of the very few "timeless" captains who completely symbolise an era for their country, where it gets to the stage that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the job. Border and Fleming are the only others I can think of who managed a decade or close to it. Clive Lloyd perhaps but he was slightly before my time.

Bradman of course, and maybe Benaud.

taipan wrote:

beamer wrote:Yeah, Smith is one of the very few "timeless" captains who completely symbolise an era for their country, where it gets to the stage that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the job. Border and Fleming are the only others I can think of who managed a decade or close to it. Clive Lloyd perhaps but he was slightly before my time.

Bradman of course, and maybe Benaud.

Imran didn't manage a decade, but he was as influential in his own way as any of the others mentioned

385 sets up a good Test match. Good comeback by the SAffers.

skully wrote:385 sets up a good Test match. Good comeback by the SAffers.

Weather's fine for the next three days.

JGK wrote:Luckily for Saf, the total isn't out of control. Could well still keep the total sub 400.

As predicted*...

beamer wrote:Yeah, Smith is one of the very few "timeless" captains who completely symbolise an era for their country, where it gets to the stage that it's hard to imagine anyone else doing the job. Border and Fleming are the only others I can think of who managed a decade or close to it. Clive Lloyd perhaps but he was slightly before my time.

ranatunga. maybe cronje

I used to think Smith was one of the most objectionable opposition players and there was a period of time where he didn't score a ton against top 5 opposition, but since then I think he's been a decent captain, decent bloke and a top batsman.

Prior played really well yesterday, it was almost 'classic' Prior - which we haven't seen for a while.

SA bowled well, but there were a lot of gifts.

Amla looked class - he's one of the best around now, I reckon - top drawer.

Brass Monkey wrote:I used to think Smith was one of the most objectionable opposition players and there was a period of time where he didn't score a ton against top 5 opposition, but since then I think he's been a decent captain, decent bloke and a top batsman.

Prior played really well yesterday, it was almost 'classic' Prior - which we haven't seen for a while.

SA bowled well, but there were a lot of gifts.

Amla looked class - he's one of the best around now, I reckon - top drawer.

There was a TV interview with Smith last week when he revealed that he had been influenced by too many people regarding his batting technique. He said he had now reverted to his natural style.

Once again it has been proved that too much coaching can be dangerous.

I don't know when it changed - maybe 2007? I thought he looked shot to ribbons around 2005 and didn't think he'd make this long. Totally proved me wrong. He and Amla really took the wind out of England's sails yesterday - not quite a batting masterclass but as I alluded to yesterday made us go on the defensive very quickly. Still quite evenly poised though, but it looked ominous from an England perspective.

Will have to look at his cumulative averages. The one I was totally wrong about was Amla, but he worked hard and tightened up his technique..

His average dropped to 45 in 2007/8 but then he seemed to get back on track in England in 2008 and has hovered around 50 ever since.

Yeah TBH when I first saw Amla, I found him very wafty and the same but to a lesser extent about AB - Steyn looked the man straightaway - but they've both become exemplary.

Aye, Smith came back well. He deserves his SA ATG place now, rather than just statistically deserving it.

England will be hoping to find some reverse swing today. Looks like a sunny day, and it's a rough pitch. The ball may have already been damaged a bit by the wet outfield yesterday, though.

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah TBH when I first saw Amla, I found him very wafty and the same but to a lesser extent about AB - Steyn looked the man straightaway - but they've both become exemplary.

Aye, Smith came back well. He deserves his SA ATG place now, rather than just statistically deserving it.

I always thought AB looked the real deal.

Many in SA will disagree with you.

I just thought that England gave him and Amla a working over in 04/05 - so didn't get to see their true form, I suppose.

Amla had serious technique problems back then. His backlift was somewhere in the direction of point, but he redefined his stance with the backfoot trigger movement.

Word for AB - top keeping debut in England. Should've known he'd be up to the task.

Hopefully it's only for this series and the one in Aus coming up.

Anyway, back to the present game. At the risk of being banal the first session could be crucial

taipan wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah TBH when I first saw Amla, I found him very wafty and the same but to a lesser extent about AB - Steyn looked the man straightaway - but they've both become exemplary.

Aye, Smith came back well. He deserves his SA ATG place now, rather than just statistically deserving it.

I always thought AB looked the real deal.

Many in SA will disagree with you.

Back in 2006, my South African cousin called AB "Herschelle Gibbs with a brain".

About right, I reckon.

In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

taipan wrote:Hopefully it's only for this series and the one in Aus coming up.

Anyway, back to the present game. At the risk of being banal the first session could be crucial

Yeah - 300 is a long way away - SA are batting long now though, so with all the class to come you can see a lead happening. But this England attack is always in it, so a couple of quick wickets and we could be quids in. I'm just glad that, with all the rain around, the contest hasn't been destroyed.

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

And a few useful bit players in Smith, Kallis, KP and Trott.

I've got a feeling it's going to be a bit of a ripper of a test match.