England v South Africa, 1st Test, The Oval, 19-23 July, 2012

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

8 of the top 17 batsmen in the ICC rankings, 7 of the top 14 bowlers (6 in the top 10).

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

And a few useful bit players in Smith, Kallis, KP and Trott.

Aye, Kallis would be in there as well, but on form over the last couple of years, it would be hard to go past those four I mentioned.

Henry wrote:I've got a feeling it's going to be a bit of a ripper of a test match.

June was hell. Absolute hell. Watching us playing meaningless game after meaningless game - all whilst this badboy could've been getting underway for a 5-Tester. ECB = qunts.

There was a suggestion that Flower had supported the Aus ODI series over another test to help with England's World Cup preparations.

Whatever. I would much rather have preferred the extra test. No one cares about the World Cup until a couple of weeks before it starts.

And when exactly did Amla become so easy on the eye? The way he times some of his shots, it reminds me of Laxman at his peak.

In 2004 he looked awful.

Henry wrote:There was a suggestion that Flower had supported the Aus ODI series over another test to help with England's World Cup preparations.

The damn fool!

Henry wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

And a few useful bit players in Smith, Kallis, KP and Trott.

Aye, Kallis would be in there as well, but on form over the last couple of years, it would be hard to go past those four I mentioned.

Kallis is averaging 70 for his last 20 test matches.

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

And a few useful bit players in Smith, Kallis, KP and Trott.

Aye, Kallis would be in there as well, but on form over the last couple of years, it would be hard to go past those four I mentioned.

Kallis is averaging 70 for his last 20 test matches.

Yeah alright, he's in there as well. Out of all of the 'fading' generation- Ponting, SRT, Sanga etc...he's the one who's still piling on the runs like it's 2003. In comparison, SRT and Ponting have been living off past glories for a while, and Sanga isn't as consistent as he used to be.

Sanga is just coming off a pretty good series.

Yeah, but I reckon he and Mahela could still score hundreds in Sri Lanka against modest attacks when they're 45.

No one ever mentions Jayawardene

Good players, all of them. Sanga's probably a touch behind Kallis and Ponting - probably Dravidish.

I reckon Ponting, Dravid, Sanga, and Mahela are all on the same-ish level.

I'd actually have Kallis in a class above. Probably on a par with SRT.

It's difficult - they're all a much of a muchness in a way - Ponting's great times were out of this world and he was on a par with BCLSRT.. but yeah, maybe career-wise Kallis deserves that sort of kudos and Ponting maybe deserves the 'ignominy' of being on the slightly lower ledge

Still think England is in the box seat. This pitch is abrasive and reverse swing could come into it. The Saffer middle order can be brittle. Petersen continues to disappoint. Too many low scores punctuate his odd higher ones.

SA bowlers and Amla and Sooky did pull them back from a situation where England threatened total control though.

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:

Naeem wrote:Are you watching the same test match Red? SA well on top with England on the ropes at 383/9.

SA have made England pay for batting too defensively on day 1.

Steady on. 385 is still a pretty good total. And your guys will be batting last against Swann on this pitch, which is already showing signs of deterioration.

60-40 England at this stage, I reckon.

There's no doubt that England have an advantage but suggest that SA bowled badly today is either a poor wind up attempt or complete ignorance. Knowing Red is probably the latter.

I didn't say they bowled poorly yesterday. I said the bowling performance has to be looked at in its totality and on day one it was poor the belligerence of Trott and Cook notwithstanding. And while Steyn bowled some rippers yesterday, he is not the wicket taking machine he was before Philander came onto the scene. AD would probably aware of this fact.

Think that SA could have wound England up earlier with a bit more luck but conversely there were several wickets gifted with Bresnan's being a prime example.

Red wrote:

taipan wrote:

Henry wrote:

Naeem wrote:Are you watching the same test match Red? SA well on top with England on the ropes at 383/9.

SA have made England pay for batting too defensively on day 1.

Steady on. 385 is still a pretty good total. And your guys will be batting last against Swann on this pitch, which is already showing signs of deterioration.

60-40 England at this stage, I reckon.

There's no doubt that England have an advantage but suggest that SA bowled badly today is either a poor wind up attempt or complete ignorance. Knowing Red is probably the latter.

I didn't say they bowled poorly yesterday. I said the bowling performance has to be looked at in its totality and on day one it was poor the belligerence of Trott and Cook notwithstanding. And while Steyn bowled some rippers yesterday, he is not the wicket taking machine he was before Philander came onto the scene. AD would probably aware of this fact.

Think that SA could have wound England up earlier with a bit more luck but conversely there were several wickets gifted with Bresnan's being a prime example.

I am sure that half the time you can't remember what you posted.

taipan wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah TBH when I first saw Amla, I found him very wafty and the same but to a lesser extent about AB - Steyn looked the man straightaway - but they've both become exemplary.

Aye, Smith came back well. He deserves his SA ATG place now, rather than just statistically deserving it.

I always thought AB looked the real deal.

Many in SA will disagree with you.

When he first came to Australia he mainly made low scores but looked a precocious talent. Think people forget how young he was on debut. Compare his baptism to seasoned players like Hussey and Trott. The latter have a lot of cricket behind them and cooler heads.

BTW Taipan I notice that Elgar made more runs recently in the longer form with SA 'A'. Is it time for him to replace Petersen?

Red wrote:BTW Taipan I notice that Elgar made more runs recently in the longer form with SA 'A'. Is it time for him to replace Petersen?

I have been saying that for some time.

Red wrote:

taipan wrote:

Brass Monkey wrote:Yeah TBH when I first saw Amla, I found him very wafty and the same but to a lesser extent about AB - Steyn looked the man straightaway - but they've both become exemplary.

Aye, Smith came back well. He deserves his SA ATG place now, rather than just statistically deserving it.

I always thought AB looked the real deal.

Many in SA will disagree with you.

When he first came to Australia he mainly made low scores but looked a precocious talent. Think people forget how young he was on debut. Compare his baptism to seasoned players like Hussey and Trott. The latter have a lot of cricket behind them and cooler heads.

Exactly. That is why AB will have the better career.

Henry wrote:In this test- Cook, Bell, Amla, deVilliers.

Arguably the four best batsmen in the world at the moment.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=500;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=21+Jul+2012;spanmin1=21+Jul+2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Henry wrote:In comparison, SRT and Ponting have been living off past glories for a while

6 poor months you mean? has the most test runs in the last 2 years besides cook and sanga

50s up for both. It has been hard going though. Smith's slowest ever half-ton. Swann's bowled pretty well, but I don't like the round the wicket tactic to Amla.

Why no Bresnan?