England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

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England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by skully on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 02:15

So at least Faf and maybe Morris for the suspended Rabada in for the Yarps. No change for Engulund.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by beamer on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 08:15

England unbeaten in Tests on this ground for a decade now.

Haven't played SA here since 2003, when Graeme Smith famously trod on his stumps after having made double centuries in the previous two matches, and the unheralded James Kirtley bowled England to victory (with help from a young lad called Anderson, whatever happened to him...) Two England wins out of two since SA's readmission.

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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 10:39

skully wrote:So at least Faf and maybe Morris for the suspended Rabada in for the Yarps. No change for Engulund.


Think there would be quota repercussions if this happens.

England has named an unchanged squad. Ballance and Dawson may have been under some pressure, but a win solves everything.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 00:49

Faf has said that Duminy is under pressure to hold his place. Finally this conversation is taking place. Smile
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 14:02

http://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/proteas-will-pick-best-team-available-for-2nd-test-20170711

Selectors are prepared to select on merit for the TB test.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 16:32

Have England formally announced an unchanged team?

Hard to think they won't. And I suppose I would agree, too. Not because I am convinced the two drafted in were drafted in wisely: I still think on balance it is more likely than not they will be something not far away from passengers. But because unless there is a complete meltdown, I think "if you give them one, you should give them at least two" is generally a decent principle.

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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by beamer on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 18:10

They're not going to drop anyone on performance grounds after 1 match, this isn't 1989... only question is whether two spinners adds anything at a traditional seamer's ground with potentially more "English" weather conditions than we saw at Lord's. Still, TRJ over Dawson would (on paper) weaken the batting, and five seamers is excessive. I'd play another specialist batsman, but there isn't one in the squad... scratch

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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 18:38

Red wrote:Faf has said that Duminy is under pressure to hold his place. Finally this conversation is taking place. Smile

Maybe if Duminy had been dropped some years back he might have learnt that you actually have to work at your game to retain a spot in the test team.

In the same period both Faf and QdK have been dropped.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by horace on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 23:17

Faf was vin ordinaire early in his career. Saves his best for Oz. Still limited but plays within his limits and is a smart skipper. Pretty much the opposite to Sniffy the II, who is maybe the dumbest Oz skip to have led the team.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 05:14

Last chance saloon for Ballance and Dawson, I reckon.

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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 13:53

taipan wrote:
Red wrote:Faf has said that Duminy is under pressure to hold his place. Finally this conversation is taking place. Smile

Maybe if Duminy had been dropped some years back he might have learnt that you actually have to work at your game to retain a spot in the test team.

In the same period both Faf and QdK have been dropped.

And dropping QDK for the home series against England may have cost them.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 14:11

Red wrote:
taipan wrote:
Red wrote:Faf has said that Duminy is under pressure to hold his place. Finally this conversation is taking place. Smile

Maybe if Duminy had been dropped some years back he might have learnt that you actually have to work at your game to retain a spot in the test team.

In the same period both Faf and QdK have been dropped.

And dropping QDK for the home series against England may have cost them.

Picking Duminy for the home series against England definitely cost us.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 00:40

Looks like Duminy confirmed as out and Olivier as Rabada's replacement.

England unchanged eleven.

SA may also replace De Bruyn with Morris and put de Kock up.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 05:27

It would be harsh on de Bruyn if he was dropped having made quite an impressive 40 odd at Lords in his second test. You need to give young guys a good run once you pick them. He bowls a bit as well, doesn't he?
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 07:02

Front page of today's paper.

Duminy finally gets the chop.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by taipan on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 08:31

England to win toss and win going away
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Red on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 09:25

taipan wrote:England to win toss and win going away

Oui, England looks clearly the better team, but Faf may at least rally the troops.

Duminy should have to perform out of his skin to win his place back.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by skully on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 13:19

Crikey!! That's a session out of the 1950s (when Test Cricket was allegedly dying of boredom). 1-56 off 23 overs. The Barnacle would be giggling.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Growler on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 20:38

I note that Jimmy A is the 4th bowler in Test history to take 300 wickets on home soil, and the first quick bowler. He is only behind Murali (493 in S/L), Kumble (350 in India) and SKW (319 in Aus).

Todays wicket was number 471, and he's No6 on the all-time list. Besides the three spinners, Glenn McGrath (563) and Courtney Walsh  (519) are ahead of him. The spinners are out of sight, and since age is catching up with Jimmy, McGrath is probably safe too (92 ahead, having retired on the same number of matches JA is now on) - Courtney may be catchable with good form and fitness.

As Glenn McGrath is the next best quick bowler for "home" wickets, with 289 - it shows why many (correctly IMHO) consider Anderson just shy of true greatness. The bare numbers show that all 5 bowlers ahead of him were significantly more effective away from home in comparison.

That said, I can think of two tours he should never have been selected for ..... his first tour of SA when his form and confidence had been completely wrecked by Duncan Fletcher and Troy Cooley. For all the undoubted improvements they brought to English cricket, their handling of Anderson was a massive failure, and huge credit is due to Peter Moores for making him the bowler he is now. Also, he wasn't fit to be selected for the 06/07 Ashes either.

Both tours, I think played on his mind to a degree for some years afterwards, and I for one can't help wondering just how much better he may have been had he spent more time in his early years bowling for Lancashire, rather than either carrying drinks, or refining his craft whilst getting rogered by batsmen like Graeme Smith and Matthew Hayden.

We'll never know - but it's a huge reflection of his character that he has achieved so much. Suffice to say that there's a certain satisfaction in being vindicated over 10 years ago when I was in a minority of about 4 people on the then C4 boards when almost everyone else was panning him relentlessly.

On the subject of milestones, Hashim amla joins Jacques Kallis, Smiffy and ABdeV in scoring 8,000 test runs for SA. Well done to him.

The match itself - too early to call a result until we bat.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by horace on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 20:47

Great post. JA has given the Poms a fine career.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by PeterCS on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 00:32

SAf shade it in the end.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by skully on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 01:10

Geez, at 6-235 Engulund were clearly on top. SAf's long tail to the rescue.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 01:16

What's up with Mark Wood? Bowling no quicker than mid 80s.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by beamer on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 08:12

Yeah, if Wood isn't bowling at 100% he's not worth having in the side.

SA ahead of the game at the moment, it's not a ground where teams typically score 450-500. Likely to be some weather interruptions early on, probably a trickier day for batting overall.

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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

Post by Henry on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 08:39

beamer wrote:Yeah, if Wood isn't bowling at 100% he's not worth having in the side.

SA ahead of the game at the moment, it's not a ground where teams typically score 450-500. Likely to be some weather interruptions early on, probably a trickier day for batting overall.

Wood joins a long line of Eng,and quicks who gradually lose pace the longer they are in or around the England side. WTF is going on? Are the training techniques f*cking them up? Do they get told by bowling coaches to focuse on line and length?

We DO need a couple of out and out quicks to take to Aus. History says medium pacers will get pulverised there. Even Jimmy only has a moderate record in Aus. There's a bit of a sameness to englands attack speed-wise. All round the low to mid 80s. If not Wood then who? Jamie Overton seems to be constantly injured, George Garton looks promising but is not ready, Finn seems to be a lost cause, Tymal Mills can only bowl four overs a day...

What's the qualification status of Joffra Archer? There's a guy who really looks the business- 6'8 and bowls mid to high 80s, and can bat as well. I assume he has a few years to qualify for England. I would have thought the Wndies would have him in their side right now if he was prepared to throw in his lot with them. I can only assume he's going down the Chris Jordan route.
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Re: England v South Africa, 2nd Test, Trent Bridge, 14-18 July, 2017

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