Re: UK politics thread (II)

[horace]

The Brexiteers talk about Ireland as “the tail that wags the dog”. In other words, the expectation that Dublin will either make Brussels cave in in the interests of EU unity, or if Europe seemingly abandons their interests (i.e. by enforcing a hard border to protect their single market) then they will walk.

In reality, support for Irexit is less than 10% and a party dedicated to it got about 1% of the vote in the Euros.

Thanks for that, esp the voting figures which I had not looked at. From my experience chatting to people in Ireland, there is enormous support for the EU. Even up North where 'remain' had the majority in the referendum, the polls continue to show an even greater antipathy to Brexit.

The ERG and other Brexiteers have not bothered to consider the social and daily life impacts of what Brexit will result in. They do not give a rats.

[beamer]

The political faith of the (southern) Irish will be tested if they are hammered economically by a no-deal Brexit and a hard border, but the anger is likely to be directed at London rather than Brussels, and Irish unification within the EU is most likely in the long term.

Scotland is likely to be first out of the UK door in a chaotic Brexit scenario, though... a greater percentage of people voted to stay in the EU there than voted to stay in the UK. A direct choice between the two is only a matter of time.

The breakup of the UK is exactly what the Conservative and Unionist party deserves.

[horace]

Thanks Beamer. The position of the Scotties is interesting. The leader of the SNP is one of the more impressive figures in the UK Parliament and certainly the most credible of the parties.

[horace]

The political faith of the (southern) Irish will be tested if they are hammered economically by a no-deal Brexit and a hard border, but the anger is likely to be directed at London rather than Brussels, and Irish unification within the EU is most likely in the long term.

Scotland is likely to be first out of the UK door in a chaotic Brexit scenario, though... a greater percentage of people voted to stay in the EU there than voted to stay in the UK. A direct choice between the two is only a matter of time.

The breakup of the UK is exactly what the Conservative and Unionist party deserves.

...and according to a Poll of 900 Tory members reported in the Guardian Online -

"A majority of Conservative party members care more about delivering Brexit than they do about keeping either Scotland or Northern Ireland in the UK, the poll suggests. By more than two to ne, they would rather have Brexit, even if it led to Scotland becoming independent. They seem to worry a tiny bit more about losing Northern Ireland, but most would accept this as the price of Brexit. A majority of members would also rather have Brexit even if it led to “significant damage” to the UK economy. And amazingly, a majority would still prefer Brexit even if it led to the Conservative party being destroyed."

[beamer]

The Turnip, as the Dutch call him, drops out... still five in the race, but it’s a race for second place. Will Boris supporters play games to get the candidate they want against him in the final two (probably preferring the middle of the road Hunt to the calculating Gove or the wildcard Stewart)?

Of course, he could shoot himself in the foot with both barrels in the TV debate tonight. But it would have to be the own goal of the century to make a difference at this stage in proceedings.

[Ronnie Sawyer]

It's a shame, nay it's scandalous that a mere three hundred ish MPs can rob what 17 million ish of us instructed our government to do. Namely leave the corrupt and odious EU. I see the Scots breaking from the rest of the UK sooner rather than later though because i think enough people are taken in by Sturgeon's nonsense. The woman is an utter fool and horribly biased against England but it appears enough people north of the border truly believe that Scotland can do well on it's own. It can't. It will be the first to be bailed out Greece-style. Boris isn't a natural PM for me but it says a lot about the people we have available to run this country that he's probably still the best of the bunch. Heaven forbid we ever get Corbyn or Cable. Farage could be just about the best person right now as PM but that won't happen for various reasons. The UK has it's worst political position for several generations.

[beamer]

Farage as PM... the bloke would sell us out to Donald Trump and make us the 51st state in all but name. Is that what you really want? (And yes, Boris might take us a good way towards that as well...)

[skully]

Smert.

[Ronnie Sawyer]

Farage as PM... the bloke would sell us out to Donald Trump and make us the 51st state in all but name. Is that what you really want? (And yes, Boris might take us a good way towards that as well...)

Well that would be really worrying! Not. Fancy having a country where your leader actually puts his own people first, is tough on enemies and terror and actually has the balls to say it as it is whether the easily-offended like it or not. Sounds good to me.
Corbyn and his ex floozy, a woman who at the last check couldn't even count would make the UK the biggest slime hole in Europe. I am not btw impressed by any of the Tories who were in the leadership race particularly and Boris has a clown side to him, not ideal in my view, but when you look at the other parties, ONLY the Brexit Party have any sense of purpose and Farage talks sense far more often than any politician i have listened to for a very long time.
My parents live in Trump country Texas and their lifestyle is a 9 out of 10 and just about everyone we met last month out there loves their leader. One car wash run totally by black men and women had a Trump poster and American flag, that surprises a few people.

[beamer]

You don’t want an NHS then? And you want a country where gun crime is rife and more and more people are left homeless and hungry?

[Bradman]

What a car wash and not picking cotton?

[beamer]

And what are the Brexit Party’s politics other than Brexit? Not officially announced, but from the individuals involved, the best guess is selling us out to America, more hate and bigotry, and making the rich richer.

[JGK]

Do they have a policy on how to achieve Brexit?

[JGK]

By the way, can one of the UK posters let me know exactly what Boris adds to the country as PM?

[beamer]

Do they have a policy on how to achieve Brexit?

Well, they just want to leave without a deal, as we will do by default in October if nothing else happens. If they (combined with hardline Tories) had a parliamentary majority, nothing could stop that.

Of course, what they expect to happen after that is unclear, as in the face of shortages, job losses and chaos in Northern Ireland there would be pressure to come up with some sort of free trade agreement ASAP, and it’s widely accepted that the EU would insist on implementing most parts of the rejected withdrawal agreement (aka “May’s deal”) before coming to the negotiating table.

[beamer]

By the way, can one of the UK posters let me know exactly what Boris adds to the country as PM?

Seemingly just name recognition, personality, and promises to all sides that he won’t be able to keep.

A conversation with one Boris-supporting MP went something like this:

“Do you think he would make a good PM?”
“No.”
“What is he going to do about Brexit?”
“Absolutely no idea.”
“So why are you supporting him, then?”
“He’s the only hope we’ve got left.”
“What, the country, you mean?”
“No, the party, of course!”

Pretty much sums it up.

[Ronnie Sawyer]

The Tories have the weakest front line since the war. I think my local team Watford FC's is better. Any centre Labour party with a sensible and loyal leader would surely trounce the Blues next GE. With the right split as badly as a pair of modern jeans, with UKIP and Brexit Party at each other's throats, with the Tories having no leader who ticks sufficient boxes in my view to be a nailed-on PM, Labour could well effectively get in by default. The least split ideology and the biggest party of many squabbling or poor ones. Corbyn is Labour's weakness. He has sat on the fence over Brexit so much he must have 1,000 splinters in his backside. So many Labour areas voted out so he has been trying to be all things to all men and we all know he'd ruin the economy and open the doors to just about anyone who wants to come to our country already overcrowded and getting more suffocated every day of the year.
The next GE will be fascinating. Unless the right come together i think Labour is in, probably with a fragile majority, but i sense they will win via the young vote which is increasingly left wing (blame the schools and colleges, most teachers are lefties) and via huge numbers of recent immigrants who have been told by Corbyn that he'd ensure all their families could settle here too.
What with the disgraceful failure by parliament to get Brexit through as we told them to do when asked, this country is politically a mess. Shame on those people who have stopped Brexit and prevented WTO, which is the best way forward. WTO it should be called, not ''crashing out'' or ''no deal'' and many other countries work very happily with that, no problems at all.

[skully]

Do they have a policy on how to achieve Brexit?

Well, they just want to leave without a deal, as we will do by default in October if nothing else happens. If they (combined with hardline Tories) had a parliamentary majority, nothing could stop that.

Of course, what they expect to happen after that is unclear, as in the face of shortages, job losses and chaos in Northern Ireland there would be pressure to come up with some sort of free trade agreement ASAP, and it’s widely accepted that the EU would insist on implementing most parts of the rejected withdrawal agreement (aka “May’s deal”) before coming to the negotiating table.

A funny ruffled hair cut??

[beamer]

There are no developed countries that trade purely on “WTO terms”. They’re designed as a fallback, a last resort, or for dealing with minor trading partners.

Trading on WTO terms means a choice between imposing standard tariffs, causing high inflation, and a zero tariff regime, flooding the market with cheap imports and destroying your own manufacturing and farming. Both would cost a lot of jobs and/or worsen people’s standard of living.

In addition to that, the customs checks will break “just in time” supply chains, collapsing more businesses, and cause shortages of perishable goods. Leaving on WTO terms also by definition means a hard border in NI and the breaking of the Good Friday Agreement, almost certainly leading to a new escalation of violence there.

By what measure is any of this good for the country, unless you just want to destroy society to pave the way for an extreme far-right government?

[taipan]

So Corbyn is ducking and diving over the Williamson decision

[Basil]

By the way, can one of the UK posters let me know exactly what Boris adds to the country as PM?

50% of bugger all.

[taipan]

Finally a decent British PM

[Basil]

Finally a decent British PM

Excuse me?

Devoid of principle, or work ethic.

Man the lifeboats.

[taipan]

Finally a decent British PM

Excuse me?

Devoid of principle, or work ethic.

Man the lifeboats.

Like Corbyn? That is a man without principles

[Basil]

Finally a decent British PM

Excuse me?

Devoid of principle, or work ethic.

Man the lifeboats.

Like Corbyn? That is a man without principles

We're screwed either way.

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