Re: 2009 Ashes series - anticipation thread

[Brass Monkey]

So what you are saying is there is NO possibility that [something] because you dont think [somthing]....

Pretty much sums up LLL.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Aye, I'm a muppet because I don't rate Hogg.

No ...You're a muppet because you see no other alternative to your own opinion ...and argue your position even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary

What an absolute retard you are. Where's the overwhelming evidence that Hogg isn't crap? There isn't any. So STFU.

Two World Cups ...the fact he doesnt need to be Warne ...

Didn't say he did need to be Warne. He does need to be half decent to "do us over". And we're talking Test cricket. That's what the Ashes is.

Doremi made the point that he bowled ok in the first two Tests but was thwarted by Sachin in form. Well, we'll have Pietersen, who's probably just as devastating against spin, if not more.

So what you are saying is there is NO possibility that Hogg might be an effective bowler against the English batting line up because you dont think he can be....

No. There aren't many things you can rule out as complete impossibilities. A wise philosopher once said "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes".

I'm saying that, in my opinion, there's very little chance of him "doing us over" as Danny put it. He's not a great spinner. He'll be nearly 40. That's got to have some sort of effect. We've got some good players of spin. He's only played one season in English conditions I think and he averaged something like 80 in a season (in county cricket, which you often deride as being crap and having few decent players of spin).

All of these things lead me to believe he won't do much against us if he plays in a year and a half. Not unreasonable, in my opinion. Your argument, on the other had, seems to be "there was once a spinner, 20 years ago who wasn't very good, but still got some wickets ".

[Lara Lara Laughs]

So what you are saying is there is NO possibility that [something] because you dont think [somthing]....

Pretty much sums up LLL.

What's that, captain bumplug? You couldn't back up your assertion that Hogg would do us over so you burst into tears and accused me of not listening to your precious opinion.

Ah. Thought so.

[Merlin]

Re ; Hogg

I'm saying that, in my opinion, there's very little chance of him "doing us over" as Danny put it. He's not a great spinner. He'll be nearly 40. That's got to have some sort of effect. We've got some good players of spin. He's only played one season in English conditions I think and he averaged something like 80 in a season (in county cricket, which you often deride as being crap and having few decent players of spin).

All of these things lead me to believe he won't do much against us if he plays in a year and a half. Not unreasonable, in my opinion. Your argument, on the other had, seems to be "there was once a spinner, 20 years ago who wasn't very good, but still got some wickets ".

He's a spinner FFS - he doesn't thunder in off a 20 yard run-up 90 times a day (15 overs) ...
At 40 I'd say he prolly is a tad more 'clever' - and bar 3 reasonable players of spin (no, Bell isn't one)
in/around the England squad, he has 7 others in the team to have a dig at.
Never underestimate the underdog. Hogg will bag a few.

IMO - our chances of regaining the Urn in 2009 under a Vawn/Moores leadership - minimal to zero.
Let's just hope Dusty Miller sees the light and dusts off his broom rapidly.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Could happen, but I seriously doubt it.

[Brass Monkey]

What's that, captain bumplug? You couldn't back up your assertion that Hogg would do us over so you burst into tears and accused me of not listening to your precious opinion.

Ah. Thought so.

How immature are you? "You couldn't back up your assertion that Hogg would do us over so you burst into tears and accused me of not listening to your precious opinion."

Get the statements sweetheart, because you're being as melodramatic as I've seen you. By f*ck you're uber-camp. I said you were naive in thinking we're good players of spin. That is all.

Of recent times, he's markedly improved - albeit in ODIs. But, of current players, he's got the 2nd best googly in the game, behind Mushy. We don't get out to big turn, we get out to deception - we cannot pick what a spinner is trying to bowl. It's quite inexplicable, but very true.

Furthermore, even if he is mediocrity as his stats suggest that won't matter a jot. We're the kings of getting out to mediocrity.

You're right in the fact that KP, Vaughan and Colly are good players of spin however.

You're also looking like a prize twat, not for the first or last time.

[DJ_Smerk]

Lardygras turning on the Australia v England rivalry way to early.

England XI

Cook
Carberry
Bell*
Peitersen
Hildreth
Shah
Ambrose+
Harris
Broad
Panesar
Hoggard

[Brass Monkey]

Bell captain... Hildreth.... Carberry... Harris after two seasons...

I think I'd prefer David Graveney as a selector.

[DJ_Smerk]

Hey if it works for Sharma and India.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Edit.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

What's that, captain bumplug? You couldn't back up your assertion that Hogg would do us over so you burst into tears and accused me of not listening to your precious opinion.

Ah. Thought so.

How immature are you? "You couldn't back up your assertion that Hogg would do us over so you burst into tears and accused me of not listening to your precious opinion."

Get the statements sweetheart, because you're being as melodramatic as I've seen you. By f*ck you're uber-camp. I said you were naive in thinking we're good players of spin. That is all.

Of recent times, he's markedly improved - albeit in ODIs. But, of current players, he's got the 2nd best googly in the game, behind Mushy. We don't get out to big turn, we get out to deception - we cannot pick what a spinner is trying to bowl. It's quite inexplicable, but very true.

Furthermore, even if he is mediocrity as his stats suggest that won't matter a jot. We're the kings of getting out to mediocrity.

You're right in the fact that KP, Vaughan and Colly are good players of spin however.

You're also looking like a prize twat, not for the first or last time.

If you say so. I'm still lagging behind you in the prize twat stakes though.

No. You didn't say that at all. You said "Hogg'll do us over if he's about". I disagreed. Then, instead of posting what you have now, which is perfectly reasonable, you said "Poor Lara - thinks we can play spin". Then you called me a muppet. And you accuse me of being immature.

We can play spin. Hogg is probably not as good as Kaneria, and we've dealt with him just fine. We've also dealt with Kumble well (he averaged mid 30s in the last series vs us)

Anyway, my point wasn't that we're brilliant players of spin. My point was that Hogg, in my opinion, won't "do us over". How you fail to grasp that is beyond me.

[DJ_Smerk]

I wanna see an Aussie Spinner who is not keyed in with one particular emotion.


Moody MacGill who doesn't give a fark about wickets.
Happy Hogg who won't stop smiling even when he's getting smacked.


Might aswell play Collin Miller.

[Merlin]

Blimey ... I hadn't had Vawn and Colly down in my 3 best England players of spin!!!
KP, Shah and Strauss.... possibly Vawn .... but Colly ???

[Brass Monkey]

If you say so. I'm still lagging behind you in the prize twat stakes though.

No. You didn't say that at all. You said "Hogg'll do us over if he's about". I disagreed. Then, instead of posting what you have now, which is perfectly reasonable, you said "Poor Lara - thinks we can play spin". Then you called me a muppet. And you accuse me of being immature.

We can play spin. Hogg is probably not as good as Kaneria, and we've dealt with him just fine. We've also dealt with Kumble well (he averaged mid 30s in the last series vs us)

Anyway, my point wasn't that we're brilliant players of spin. My point was that Hogg, in my opinion, won't "do us over".

It's doubtful re: the prize twat stakes. I'm not conceited and I don't want a concensus, but it's quite plain to see.

Next off... you just posted our 'conversation', well darling I don't really deem "Hogg? F*ck off, we're not that bad against spin" as a much of a reply to be honest. Furthering with your 'Will he f*ck... blah blah blah' is, again, hardly worthy of a response. I've already said why I called you a muppet and this goes in with the 'immature' summing up.

I don't rate Kaneria at all, so maybe I'm biased. Kumble has a decent googly, but he hasn't the flight and the ball barely deviates at times. To reiterate, done by deception.

We have our opinions Lara, you just put them across in an incredibly inane way. It tires at times.

Yes, I know your next post - denigration of myself to somehow make you look better. But it doesn't work. You still look incredibly bad.

[Brass Monkey]

Blimey ... I hadn't had Vawn and Colly down in my 3 best England players of spin!!!
KP, Shah and Strauss.... possibly Vawn .... but Colly ???

My word merlin(though I agree about Shah as being a good player of spin). Strauss? Yeah of course.

Collingwood has a low backlift, actually picks what is coming out more than twice an over and can rotate the strike. That's a good player of spin IMO.

[Merlin]

Blimey ... I hadn't had Vawn and Colly down in my 3 best England players of spin!!!
KP, Shah and Strauss.... possibly Vawn .... but Colly ???

My word merlin(though I agree about Shah as being a good player of spin). Strauss? Yeah of course.

Collingwood has a low backlift, actually picks what is coming out more than twice an over and can rotate the strike. That's a good player of spin IMO.

Agree Strauss was crap against Warne ... who wasn't?!
But he is a decent player of spin - being left handed flicking off his pads helps a bit.

Low backlift ... okay ... mebbe ... but Colly's never looked convincing against spinners IMO.
more a shuffler with hard hands ...

[Brass Monkey]

Low backlift ... okay ... mebbe ... but Colly's never looked convincing against spinners IMO.
more a shuffler ...

Yeah... but then he seems to face more balls against spinners than any of our line-up. Granted KP ruins spin when he's in, but at least Collingwood sticks in and plays the balls. He's not exceptional, hence why he doesn't destroy spinners, but he is good IMO. Not convinced by Strauss myself, seems inevitable that when he was putting pace to all parts that he'd get out to a spinner. I could be wrong.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

If you say so. I'm still lagging behind you in the prize twat stakes though.

No. You didn't say that at all. You said "Hogg'll do us over if he's about". I disagreed. Then, instead of posting what you have now, which is perfectly reasonable, you said "Poor Lara - thinks we can play spin". Then you called me a muppet. And you accuse me of being immature.

We can play spin. Hogg is probably not as good as Kaneria, and we've dealt with him just fine. We've also dealt with Kumble well (he averaged mid 30s in the last series vs us)

Anyway, my point wasn't that we're brilliant players of spin. My point was that Hogg, in my opinion, won't "do us over".

It's doubtful re: the prize twat stakes. I'm not conceited and I don't want a concensus, but it's quite plain to see.

Next off... you just posted our 'conversation', well darling I don't really deem "Hogg? F*ck off, we're not that bad against spin" as a much of a reply to be honest. Furthering with your 'Will he f*ck... blah blah blah' is, again, hardly worthy of a response. I've already said why I called you a muppet and this goes in with the 'immature' summing up.

I don't rate Kaneria at all, so maybe I'm biased. Kumble has a decent googly, but he hasn't the flight and the ball barely deviates at times. To reiterate, done by deception.

We have our opinions Lara, you just put them across in an incredibly inane way. It tires at times.

Yes, I know your next post - denigration of myself to somehow make you look better. But it doesn't work. You still look incredibly bad.

Can you possibly be so stupid? I can't actually believe my eyes. You've completely missed (or ignored) the point of my post. Well done. Sorry if it was too inane.

You don't rate Kaneria and Kumble doesn't have the guile but Hogg would "do us over". You're a joke. I don't want to continue this conversation. Please don't reply.

[JKLever]

[furriner]

Thank god for the Ashes. Go to it boys.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

@ JKL.

[Brass Monkey]

Can you possibly be so stupid? I can't actually believe my eyes. You've completely missed (or ignored) the point of my post. Well done. Sorry if it was too inane.

You don't rate Kaneria and Kumble doesn't have the guile but Hogg would "do us over". You're a joke. I don't want to continue this conversation. Please don't reply.

You're point was simple.

You don't rate Hogg.

It's not hard to understand, hence me outlining it twice why I thought Hogg would fair well.

I didn't say anything of the sort regarding Kumble. I said he hadn't the deviation, a simpler phrase for the word deviation in my context is 'movement off the pitch/seam'. Whereas though he would deceive our batsmen, it didn't move enough to makes shots anything but half-bat instead of edges.

Kumble is a great bowler. I've said it many a time. However, he's never destroyed us like a Warne/Murali/Mushy/Saqqy...

So, to sum up, I've more than answered the "point of your post", vehemently so. But, I expect you know that, know that - again - I'm speaking the truth about you and it probably upsets you.

As for the last paragraph overall, if you cannot see why I think you are a f*cking immature, inane, childish little c*nt then you're more arrogant than I ever imagined: Derisive little statement. Taking your ball and going home. Request that a pithy little rebuttal like that doesn't get a reply.

Pretty shameful mate.

[Lara Lara Laughs]

Dude. If you being a joke and my pointing that out is immature, c*ntish..blah blah blah, then so be it.

No. My point was that you made things up. You said that "I said you were naive in thinking we're good players of spin. That is all".

That wasn't all though. That wasn't all at all. At all at all. Your original point, which I quite clearly pointed out to you, was that Hogg will do us over. You ignored that and went on one of your usual tirades against immaturity..blah, blah, blah. Your point wasn't just that we're not great against spin otherwise I would have agreed with you. Your point was that Hogg will do us over. When I disagreed with that, you went into your "darling", "sweetheart", "muppet" routine.

Besides, so what if I told you to f*ck off? That's what people do on this board. In fact, I'd say you're the most guilty of it. You pioneered it. To use it all the time and then deem it childish is the most hippo sized hypocrisy I've ever seen.

Yes. Well done. Kumble is a great bowler. And yes. You're on a roll. He has never destroyed us. Why? Because we've played him well. I refuse to believe that Hogg has the ability to dominate us when Kumble doesn't. Whether it be through Hogg's supposed deviation and deception or not. I don't believe that Kumble isn't deceptive and he deviates the ball enough to be the third highest wicket taker of all time.

Deception is what spin bowling is all about. Inducing false strokes and whatnot. If Kumble isn't deceptive, doesn't flight it and doesn't turn it much, HTF did he get 600 wickets? He just bowled it straight and waited for someone to miss? Surely anyone could do that?

Yes, you did say deviation. You also said he didn't have the flight. Now, to me, flight comes under guile i.e. deception.

Perhaps you are speaking the truth about me. Well, so you keep telling me anyway.

[HH_pink]

Would he f*ck. He'd get a couple of wickets an innings and he'd get tonked by Pietersen and Vaughan.

You wish, stoopid chick.

[HH_pink]

What is there to "anticipate"? 5-0, surely?

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