Is Vettori better than Jesus?

Or is it Vaughan? Discuss!

What would Jesus do?

Dan's got a better beard.

Vettori's perhaps the most over-rated player in world cricket currently. Take a look at his record without allowing "minnow-bashing" (basically excluding Bangladesh and Zimbabwe):

Daniel Vettori: 38.15
Ashley Giles: 40.19
Mohammad Rafique: 41.12
Monty Panesar: 32.45

He's a far better batsman than he is a bowler. He has a reputation because he once took a bagful against Australia in Australia - done ****** all else apart from bash the minnows like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and England. Class one-day bowler though, a bit like Afridi.

I wouldn't say 'over-rated', that would imply that a lot of people actually rate him highly. Vettori is never mentioned in discussions as one of the world's top spinners.

I think most people know the score with DV. Hes a very handy cricketer, averaging 28 with the bat and 35 with the ball, good fielder, intelligent young man. He does very well in a poor NZ side and shows a lot of fight. I like to see him do well and I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same. Not world class but a good player to have in the game.

Also with those glasses and that beard, he is hawt

Augustus wrote:Vettori's perhaps the most over-rated player in world cricket currently. Take a look at his record without allowing "minnow-bashing" (basically excluding Bangladesh and Zimbabwe):

Daniel Vettori: 38.15
Ashley Giles: 40.19
Mohammad Rafique: 41.12
Monty Panesar: 32.45

He's a far better batsman than he is a bowler. He has a reputation because he once took a bagful against Australia in Australia - done ****** all else apart from bash the minnows like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and England. Class one-day bowler though, a bit like Afridi.

Nah. He's class.

Last 3 years he has averaged 47 with the bat and 31 with the ball. That's class no matter what way you want to manipulate his stats.

The last three years, minnows excluded again, he averages 37 with the bat and 37 with the ball. To me, that makes him a solid, though unspectacular, batsman, and a mediocre spin bowler.

Staistics, of course, are not everything, but they are SOMETHING in this particular sport. In those three years (dated to 18th May 2005 exactly), he has played fifteen matches, taking less than 2.5 wickets per match. I would hardly call that class - alright, definitely, but nothing to write home about.

I personally think that there's a tendency to over-rate the Kiwis by the English media because England are so darn rubbish against them. Sky today had the audacity to describe Brendon McCullum as the No 1. Wicket-Keeper Batsman in the World, and then to describe Daniel Vettori as "world-class".

World to Sky Sports, World to Sky Sports - get an opinion that isn't fawning to all and sundry that doesn't reek of pure bollocks. On the days that Sangakkara takes the gloves, he is instantaneously the best keeper in the world, and then again one of the best batsman in the world. Then there's MS Dhoni if not. Finally, there's Brendon "never scored a Test hundred against a good side (though it will happen this summer)" McCullum.

Edit: I largely agree with Daz that Vettori's a solid performer - my complaint over Vettori revolves around Sky's daring to describe him as "world-class."

Sanga, as much as I've admired his cricket over the years, isn't the best keeper when he takes the gloves. Faaaaar from it.

Sanga's a class keeper. He keeps flawlessly to Murali and is fine to the pacers by-and-large. Look at his stumping of Lara in the World Cup - he had the ability and patience to wait for the stumping. That is absolutely class wicket-keeping. He mightn't be perfect, but he's about as good as any other around at the minute (and that's with an "at least" attached to the end of the sentence).

I'd take McCullum over Dhoni any day of the week.


And Sangakkara was a quality 'keeper after an inauspicious start. He ended up being at least as good as Gilchrist was.

Augustus wrote:a tendency to over-rate the Kiwis by the English media because England are so darn rubbish against them.

Last six Anglo-NZ tests: 5-1 to the Engerlund.

Vettori = Ashley Giles with slightly better batting. Except Ash had a good series in Pakistan and Drooper never has.

I'd take McCullum over Dhoni any day of the week.

And your team would lose.

doremi wrote:

I'd take McCullum over Dhoni any day of the week.

And your team would lose.

Yeah? How did you work that one out?

Well Dhoni's the better keeper, Dhoni's the better batsman.

doremi wrote:Well Dhoni's the better keeper, Dhoni's the better batsman.

Take your comedy elsewhere.

At the moment, he's the best keeper to spinners, does a great job to the pacers. His only fault is that he sometimes leaves a few for first slip when keeping to the pacers.

doremi wrote:Well Dhoni's the better keeper, Dhoni's the better batsman.

What makes you think he's a better keeper? And what makes you think he's a better batsman?

Keeper, there's no doubt. Dhoni's just better. Batsman is debateable. Dhoni tends to change his game when the situation demands it. Not sure I've seen McCullum doing that.

doremi wrote:Keeper, there's no doubt. Dhoni's just better. Batsman is debateable. Dhoni tends to change his game when the situation demands it. Not sure I've seen McCullum doing that.

There is no way Dhoni is the better keeper. I have never seen him take a good catch while I have seen him drop plenty. And McCullum doesn't claim grounded catchs.

As batsmen it is up for debate.

PearlJ wrote:

doremi wrote:Well Dhoni's the better keeper, Dhoni's the better batsman.

Take your comedy elsewhere.

Fixed.

Augustus wrote:Vettori's perhaps the most over-rated player in world cricket currently. Take a look at his record without allowing "minnow-bashing" (basically excluding Bangladesh and Zimbabwe):

Daniel Vettori: 38.15
Ashley Giles: 40.19
Mohammad Rafique: 41.12
Monty Panesar: 32.45

He's a far better batsman than he is a bowler. He has a reputation because he once took a bagful against Australia in Australia - done ****** all else apart from bash the minnows like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and England. Class one-day bowler though, a bit like Afridi.

I agree that Vettori is overrated as a bowler. Particularly in Test cricket. Commentators can't seem to stop drooling over him though. And he isn't even Aussie and blonde.....

PearlJ wrote:

doremi wrote:Keeper, there's no doubt. Dhoni's just better. Batsman is debateable. Dhoni tends to change his game when the situation demands it. Not sure I've seen McCullum doing that.

There is no way Dhoni is the better keeper. I have never seen him take a good catch while I have seen him drop plenty. And McCullum doesn't claim grounded catchs.

As batsmen it is up for debate.

I actually don't remember Dhoni dropping plenty.

But I do remember seeing him taking spectacular catches in Aus, so much so that he was made to change his gloves

Dhoni doesn't drop too many, after the first 2 years when he was really iffy with his glovework he has been better than most keepers. Probably the best since Mongia to keep to spinners.

prasad14 wrote:I actually don't remember Dhoni dropping plenty.

But I do remember seeing him taking spectacular catches in Aus, so much so that he was made to change his gloves

Are you saying that Dhoni can only take catches when he is cheating?

That is a bit harsh.

dhoni is probably the best keeper in the world atm looking at form over the past 12-18 months.