Re: Virender Sehwag is the best opening batsman of all time

by philcric Thu 03 Dec 2009, 11:52

Henry wrote:Bradman, Lara and Sehwag have all scored three triple-centuries. Sehwag is 16 runs away from a very special record.

two each not three.

by Lara Lara Laughs Thu 03 Dec 2009, 12:02

Joke. Sehwag = FTB a lot of the time.

by DJ_Smerk Thu 03 Dec 2009, 12:03

Lara Lara Laughs wrote:Joke. Sehwag = FTB a lot of the time.

Hearsay?

by Guest Thu 03 Dec 2009, 12:25

Henry wrote:The amount of runs he scores, and the speed at which he scores them, makes him a batsman that is matched in history possibly by only Bradman, Lara, and Viv Richards.

Discuss.

Errrm.... yeah. I suppose.

As for best opener, I still think Sunny is the best from India due to his exceptional record against the Windies pace quartet.

by Bradman Thu 03 Dec 2009, 12:31

Sunni's a qunt, but as an opener he has few peers if any.

by Red Thu 03 Dec 2009, 12:45

Sehwag's black mark is probably in SA where he has struggled and on the last tor he had to be dropped down the order. He made a top score of 40 at #6, was promoted again to opener and promptly failed.

He has done well in Australia though.

by embee Thu 03 Dec 2009, 13:26

He's shit against Banglasdesh

by taipan Thu 03 Dec 2009, 13:30

embee wrote:He's shit against Banglasdesh

And against NZ apparently.

Averages 26 in NZ

by Guest Thu 03 Dec 2009, 13:37

I probably wouldn't agree with the opening statement at this point, though I've definately heard more outrageous claims. He is definately special and by the end of his career there is every chance I will agree with the opening statement.

by JKLever Thu 03 Dec 2009, 13:42

I don't agree with the statement, but is there any other opener in the last 20 years who has destroyed attacks like that?

by embee Thu 03 Dec 2009, 13:46

JKLever wrote:I don't agree with the statement, but is there any other opener in the last 20 years who has destroyed attacks like that?

MtFTB

by furriner Thu 03 Dec 2009, 14:26

Gavaskar for me still.

However, at a time when every Tom, Dick and Harry is being anointed as a "great" and/ or a "legend", Sehwag will not, IMHO, at the end of his career, do injustice to either term. In the old school sense of either term..

by JKLever Thu 03 Dec 2009, 15:05

embee wrote:
JKLever wrote:I don't agree with the statement, but is there any other opener in the last 20 years who has destroyed attacks like that?

MtFTB

Not to the degree sehwag does....

by The One Thu 03 Dec 2009, 16:00

nobody in the history of cricket has

a freak as much as gilchrist. i think his slowest hundred is at a s/r of 80 or something. double hundreds (and triples) at better than a run a ball. ridiculous

by Basil Thu 03 Dec 2009, 18:37

The suggestion that Sehwag is better than Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, and Gavaskar to name but four, is too absurd for further comment.

by Ash Thu 03 Dec 2009, 18:39

5 of the 10 fastest doubles have sehwags name next to them. 3 of the top 4. i really hope he gets the triple tomorrow.

ATG already imo. fukin ridiculous

by Ash Thu 03 Dec 2009, 18:42

Red wrote:Sehwag's black mark is probably in SA where he has struggled and on the last tor he had to be dropped down the order. He made a top score of 40 at #6, was promoted again to opener and promptly failed.

He has done well in Australia though.

scored a century on debut batting at 6 in SA against pollock at his peak. the series you refer to, he had just got back into the side and was struggling for form for the first time in his career iirc.

by Gary 111 Thu 03 Dec 2009, 20:11

Rob I wrote:
Henry wrote:The amount of runs he scores, and the speed at which he scores them, makes him a batsman that is matched in history possibly by only Bradman, Lara, and Viv Richards.

Discuss.

Errrm.... yeah. I suppose.

As for best opener, I still think Sunny is the best from India due to his exceptional record against the Windies pace quartet.

Sunny doesn't have much of a record against the West Indies pace quartet.

He only faced them twice:
In 1982/83 he averaged 30 in 5 Tests
In 1983/84 he averaged 26.9 in 5 Tests as an opener (although to be fair in the dead rubber 6th Test he dropped himself down the order and scored 236*).

by doremi Thu 03 Dec 2009, 20:25

I don't care if he's the greatest batsman of all time. I just don't. I don't think he does either. Love his batting.

I think though, that we can safely consider him an ATG now,

by LeFromage Thu 03 Dec 2009, 20:33

An ATGFTB?

by Guest Thu 03 Dec 2009, 20:45

Gary 111 wrote:
Rob I wrote:
Henry wrote:The amount of runs he scores, and the speed at which he scores them, makes him a batsman that is matched in history possibly by only Bradman, Lara, and Viv Richards.

Discuss.

Errrm.... yeah. I suppose.

As for best opener, I still think Sunny is the best from India due to his exceptional record against the Windies pace quartet.

Sunny doesn't have much of a record against the West Indies pace quartet.

Eh? How does this corrolate with his record against WI of 13 centuries in 26 tests, average 65? He must have scored runs against Roberts, Holding, Garner, Clarke and the rest at some point...

by Ash Thu 03 Dec 2009, 21:39

there was an article about this on cricinfo, most sunnys big runs came against the weaker WI attacks. slight nit picking, still a very good record.

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/132436.html

Mythbuster of the week - Sunny not so flash after all?
There is little doubt that Sunil Gavaskar would rank among the best openers in the all-time Test list. What is slightly over-rated, though, is his record against West Indies. At first glance, the stats are awe-inspiring: an average in the mid-60s, with an equally impressive record both home and away, and a hundred every two Tests over a span of 27 matches.

Gavaskar against West Indies
Tests Runs Ave 100s 50s
Home 14 1345 61.13 6 3
Away 13 1404 70.20 7 4
Total 27 2749 65.45 13 7

Dig a little deeper, and a few chinks appear. Gavaskar's two best series against the West Indians came when their bowling attack was a far cry from the four-pronged battery of fast bowlers that had been synonymous with their cricket in the 1980s. First, the sensational debut series in 1970-71, which fetched Gavaskar 774 runs from four Tests. The pace-bowling attack consisted of Vanburn Holder (career record - 109 wickets from 40 Tests at 33.27), Gregory Shillingford (15, 7, 35.80), Keith Boyce (60, 21, 30.01), Uton Dowe (12, 4, 44.50), John Shepherd (19, 5 25.21) and Garry Sobers (235, 93, 34.03). Hardly fearsome stuff.

Then, when West Indies came with a team weakened by the Kerry Packer exodus, Gavaskar feasted again, with 732 runs in six Tests. The pace bowlers this time were Holder, Norbert Phillip (28, 9, 37.17), Sylvester Clarke (42, 11, 27.85) and a raw Malcolm Marshall, who managed measly returns of three wickets at an exorbitant 88.33 in the Tests.

Series-wise break-up
Year Tests Runs Ave 100s Pace attack
1970-71 (Away) 4 774 154.80 4 Holder, Shillingford, Boyce, Dowe, Shepherd, Sobers, Dowe
1974-75 (Home) 2 108 27.00 - Roberts, Holder, Julien
1975-76 (Away) 4 390 55.71 2 Roberts, Holding, Julien, Daniel, Holder
1978-79 (Home) 6 732 91.50 4 Phillip, Clarke, Holder, Marshall
1982-83 (Away) 5 240 30.00 1 Holding, Roberts, Garner, Marshall
1983-84 (Home) 6 505 50.50 2 Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Daniel, Davis

The two series in which Gavaskar did have to confront a four-pronged pace attack, he didn't enjoy quite as much success. The tour of 1982-83 was especially miserable: his only score of note in nine innings was an unbeaten 147 on the fifth day of a Georgetown Test which was meandering towards a draw after rain had washed out two of the first four days. Remove that knock, and his eight remaining innings in that series fetched him a mere 93.

The home series in 1983-84 was far more rewarding - his century at Delhi and 90 at Ahmedabad were memorable innings - but almost half his total runs in the series came from one innings, an unbeaten 236 in the last Test, at Chennai, in another rain-affected match after West Indies had already sealed the series in emphatic style. Michael Holding, in his autobiography Whispering Death, suggests that Gavaskar was a fair-weather batsman - impenetrable in good batting conditions, but not quite as impressive when the going got tough. Does he have a point there?

by JGK Fri 04 Dec 2009, 01:09

Basil wrote:The suggestion that Sehwag is better than Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, and Gavaskar to name but four, is too absurd for further comment.

Finally some sense.

by PeterCS Fri 04 Dec 2009, 01:10

They didn't smack as many maxxers as Viru though.

by JGK Fri 04 Dec 2009, 01:11

My problem with Sehwag is his volatility. Sure he has a stack of double tons but he also gets out cheaply a bit too regularly for an opener.

With all his massive scores, his average is still only the same as Hayden's.

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